ride2rideagain
Well-known member
glad you are fine....way to keep ur head up and get back out there
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My 2nd TD and 1st ever crash
- Thread starter stormcat
- Start date
R1Guy
Well-known member
Dave when your going through a corner do you suppose that sitting pin straight up and down is better? Or should you prepare for the position that you will eventually be in...
GRAYZ
Well-known member
On the track and street, just don't ride in their line on the straights. That way if you close on them too quickly under braking, at least you'll go by them instead of into them. Keeping your eyes up and looking past the rider in front will also give you a bigger perspective and make things seem to go more slowly.
I can only reinforce what some others have said here, next track day find an instructor to have them go out with you in your session. Or ask them to suggest someone to you who is in another group. People are often very happy to help. Ride your ride, and don't sweat what the others may be doing in your session.
And also a word of caution with trail braking - it is best used to set your corner speed closer to the apex after the turn is initiated. Don't worry about that right now. Finish your braking, set your corner speed while still upright, then make your turn. If anything, worry about it when you get into expert/advanced, many of those riders don't even use that technique. If you try to do this too early, you will have a hard time getting any decent corner speeds and your learning curve will suffer.
Am I too late to participate giving random advices? and confuse Stormcat more?:laughing6:
Just think about a nice chilled beer you are going to enjoy after a hot day of lapping...
ccasion5: it will conquer THE FEAR.... Nice cold beer will fix almost anything... if you do not drink, sorry I cannot help you then.Warning - It is very tempting but never drink before or between the sessions
I'm first in line for the next available (2011 or earlier) STR, don't butt in line sister! Awesome split duty bike for track/street, and sexy to boot.
stormcat
Well-known member
I absolutely agree. Being set up before the corner physically means less work for the bike to get through. I totally get this concept.
Warning - It is very tempting but never drink before or between the sessions
Don't think I haven't already thought this! LOL
stormcat
Well-known member
If I were a rich woman, I'd just hire a private instructor for two whole days and learn me up all nice and fast. Just like the girls on the CBR125s I saw at 'Bogie. A friend of mine has done several riders clinics in the US and was telling me how they follow him rather than tow him. Or at least, they alternate between the two methods. That way after the session they have an actual meeting and can tell him where his problem areas are and offer advice, and where he has improved. I think that would be a fantastic way to go about it. It's one thing to follow someone and try to copy their lines, but another if someone is actually watching and scrutinizing.
I'm not trail braking on the track. I have on the street. Right now I'm focused on letting go of the brake! I was over braking before (how infuriating... serious mental hurdle going on there). Brain talking to hand: JUST. LET. GO! :lol:
You're doing things backwards.
Trail braking on the street is VERY dangerous, as you have no idea what surface conditions are going to present themselves.
You seem to be OVER-thinking everything that's going on right now.
+1, just think about a beer... In case of Recip, a cheese burger...
Stormcat isn't talking about corner entry body position, but rather mid corner position. Riding through a corner with your body all crooked does nothing to help you, it just builds lazy habits and in addition often causes you to become tense on the bike.
GRAYZ
Well-known member
The Racer5 program uses 125's and you don't have to be rich to attend it
Fast Phase 1 would be great to save up and attend, you'll get all that advice and expert instruction.Sure, attending a course is a great way to get a lot of training in a short amount of time. But don't forget you are now in the company of many others who share something with you: we were all beginners once. Many will be happy to "pay-back" because they once benefited from someone else giving a useful tip or suggestion. An advanced rider won't be losing anything going out in green to give you a hand. If you don't know anyone who you would trust, ask the organizer if they could suggest someone who could be helpful. Maybe offer a post-trackday beer as thanks.
Since you are already familiar with RC, maybe consider booking a track day with them. I do the majority of my days with them and they really take care of their customers.
Beastess
Well-known member
thanks for posting that Justin, great for track day wannabes like me...saw your other vids on YT love the "Be Smart" tape over the speedometer..lol
rmemedic
Well-known member
Always takes a bit of time to get back in to the groove after a fall. For me, it's usually about a half lap before I can get back on it, I always feel like my bars are bent but I know it's usually just a mental thing.
Had a good little 3 bike crash on practice saturday, got back up and once I started to feel the groove at the other end of the track, I totally low sided myself over a single in a corner (dirt bikes here). Spent the rest of the day trying to straighten out my rad so I only got once session on the track all day, and had to go full speed sunday morning in my first race with literally no track time.
Can't offer any help for your technique as I don't ride "agressive" on asphalt and there are some well more qualified guys on the board.
However, track people are always great, I had people coming up and offering help when they saw me ripping my bike apart to straighten things out. I have myself offered up spare parts and wrenched for people at the track, even did a mid-moto brake job for a guy once.
Had a good little 3 bike crash on practice saturday, got back up and once I started to feel the groove at the other end of the track, I totally low sided myself over a single in a corner (dirt bikes here). Spent the rest of the day trying to straighten out my rad so I only got once session on the track all day, and had to go full speed sunday morning in my first race with literally no track time.
Can't offer any help for your technique as I don't ride "agressive" on asphalt and there are some well more qualified guys on the board.
However, track people are always great, I had people coming up and offering help when they saw me ripping my bike apart to straighten things out. I have myself offered up spare parts and wrenched for people at the track, even did a mid-moto brake job for a guy once.
R1Guy
Well-known member
Riding through a mid corner pin straight while your bike is leaned over does nothing to help you either... Her images show that she is leaning the bike over and carrying some speed in the video's, getting her butt off the seat will definitely help. I don't understand how positioning your body before the corner will make you lazy and tense mid corner??
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Metastable
Well-known member
In the pics you are looking a touch tense. I know you have heard this before, but look further a head and as my friend says, drop the inside shoulder... relax it. If you are tense, you can't swivel your head around. Think "feathers" when you're out there.
Stormcat:
Glad you're okay and cudo's to you for getting right back on. You also posted an incredibly great write up. Thanks for the entertaining read.
Don't listen to DaveP. (sorry dave). Listen to R1Guy. You want to set up you butt half way off the seat before braking, before cornering. Just slide your bottom over, don't lift. I don't know what your body positioning was like prior to the crash though, but from your description, I can understand your reluctance to hang off the bike afterwards.
Trail braking works, and is necessary on the track, as BrianP said. His description about the mechanics is bang on. It's not about braking too hard and slowing down too much before a curve. It's about compressing the front suspension and keeping it compressed as you turn it, then progressively letting off the brakes as you lean in further, giving up traction for braking to traction for leaning, all the while keeping the suspension compressed uniformly. It's a skill I picked up on FAST Phase 2
You were having suspension issues, right? I recalled this thread you posted:
If your suspension is not set up right and is too stiff, you will lose rear wheel traction around any bump or bounce or even hard braking.
This may be why you feel coming off the throttle caused you to crash, but staying on it may not have helped either, not if your cold tire was "unweighting" too much off the ground.
I had a similar experience on my Busa, when the suspension was set up just way too tight/firm. I went into a corner hot and I couldn't control the bike, the back end started to brake loose. The same even happened on a slow tight corner: it just gave out as the suspension wouldn't absorb the compression and the rear tire literally compressed and started to "bounce".
From what I've read, most bikes are set up from the factory with a 160lbs rider in mind. If you're considerably lighter than this, get the damping and rebound settings set up right (not just the pre-load).
Taking it to John Sharrad would be an excellent idea, as his reputation seems excellent and quite widespread (unfortunately, we could not find time to arrange for an appointment as he and I were both busy for an entire summer). I'm surprised to read from you that he's at RC (Rider's Choice?), as I thought he had his own business out of the Peterborough area and he frequents trackdays. Check out his website: accelerated technologies.
BrianP: Great write up on trail braking. Very concise and informative. Thank you.
Glad you're okay and cudo's to you for getting right back on. You also posted an incredibly great write up. Thanks for the entertaining read.
Don't listen to DaveP. (sorry dave). Listen to R1Guy. You want to set up you butt half way off the seat before braking, before cornering. Just slide your bottom over, don't lift. I don't know what your body positioning was like prior to the crash though, but from your description, I can understand your reluctance to hang off the bike afterwards.
Trail braking works, and is necessary on the track, as BrianP said. His description about the mechanics is bang on. It's not about braking too hard and slowing down too much before a curve. It's about compressing the front suspension and keeping it compressed as you turn it, then progressively letting off the brakes as you lean in further, giving up traction for braking to traction for leaning, all the while keeping the suspension compressed uniformly. It's a skill I picked up on FAST Phase 2
You were having suspension issues, right? I recalled this thread you posted:
If your suspension is not set up right and is too stiff, you will lose rear wheel traction around any bump or bounce or even hard braking.
This may be why you feel coming off the throttle caused you to crash, but staying on it may not have helped either, not if your cold tire was "unweighting" too much off the ground.
I had a similar experience on my Busa, when the suspension was set up just way too tight/firm. I went into a corner hot and I couldn't control the bike, the back end started to brake loose. The same even happened on a slow tight corner: it just gave out as the suspension wouldn't absorb the compression and the rear tire literally compressed and started to "bounce".
From what I've read, most bikes are set up from the factory with a 160lbs rider in mind. If you're considerably lighter than this, get the damping and rebound settings set up right (not just the pre-load).
Taking it to John Sharrad would be an excellent idea, as his reputation seems excellent and quite widespread (unfortunately, we could not find time to arrange for an appointment as he and I were both busy for an entire summer). I'm surprised to read from you that he's at RC (Rider's Choice?), as I thought he had his own business out of the Peterborough area and he frequents trackdays. Check out his website: accelerated technologies.
BrianP: Great write up on trail braking. Very concise and informative. Thank you.
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stormcat
Well-known member
My understanding (and confirmed by the way Turn2 taught me in the ARC1) was to have all your braking complete and be off the bike before the corner. It doesn't make sense to not be set up physically after that point. Otherwise, (i.e., if you're moving about on the bike while in the corner) you risk upsetting the suspension. This seems especially salient if you're leaned over and have less contact patch. Get 'er all done while you're upright, be smooth through the corner. Moving about while in the corner is not conducive to being smooth. That said, I'm agreeing 100% with you, R1Guy.
stormcat
Well-known member
In the pics you are looking a touch tense. I know you have heard this before, but look further a head and as my friend says, drop the inside shoulder... relax it. If you are tense, you can't swivel your head around. Think "feathers" when you're out there.
A "touch" tense? Hahahahahahahahaaaa! I think the last time I was that tense on a bike was back when I had my beginner bike. So we're going back 4 or so years since I've been that much of a scaredy cat!
stormcat
Well-known member
@BusaBob and Reciprocity: I'm down to about 135-138 lbs now. I don't know if anything was done to the suspension prior to me for the previous owner. Heck, I don't even know if he was a big guy because I never met him (dealt with his brother on the sale). But the rear suspension is incredibly stiff on the bike. The front was softened up a bit for me when the forks were redone, though. Probably not a good thing to have the front suspension set up for my weight, but not the rear? How much does that mess up the geometry of the bike?
So you guys are telling me to remain on the front brake while leaning into the corner?
Btw, sorry for the multiple posts, folks. The forum isn't letting me insert multiple quotes in a single post for some reason. Or it could just be an FF issue. IDK.
So you guys are telling me to remain on the front brake while leaning into the corner?
Btw, sorry for the multiple posts, folks. The forum isn't letting me insert multiple quotes in a single post for some reason. Or it could just be an FF issue. IDK.
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