Motorcycle Parking Fees Recommended without Notice or Public Consultation

[clutch]

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Who wants to meet up for pints?

 

[kiwi]

Who wants to meet up for pints?

Pints.. Nice.. What's the occasion ?
When this whole thing came to light a couple years ago we tried to get the word out there to other riders. Someone even printed out several hundred flyers and out them on bikes and scooters downtown to make them aware of the possible changes .
If you meet for a pint downtown, The elephant and castle is a good location. Over 40 bikes park on simcoe and pearl streets...

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Pints.. Nice.. What's the occasion ?
When this whole thing came to light a couple years ago we tried to get the word out there to other riders. Someone even printed out several hundred flyers and out them on bikes and scooters downtown to make them aware of the possible changes .
If you meet for a pint downtown, The elephant and castle is a good location. Over 40 bikes park on simcoe and pearl streets...

A few of us did that. I hit the area around Ryerson, but wasn't the only person to do it there.

My email to those who are overseeing the pilot project:

Hi Folks,

From the various city releases that I've seen it is unclear whether passenger vehicles are specifically excluded from parking in the designated motorcycle parking areas, if there is enforcement of this, or if the existing areas are to be treated as 'just a suggestion.' I have already heard multiple reports that the designated areas are insufficient for the existing motorcycle traffic, in those areas, and that passenger vehicles are blocking spaces now designated as motorcycle parking. Based on the lack of advertising for this initiative and the rather small signage this might be forgiven, but it will not give you a clear picture of needed space.

Thank you,

 

[clutch]

Pints.. Nice.. What's the occasion ?

Congestion/Gridlock is the top issue in Toronto. There are policies being developed, like the parking issue, with no consultation from the riding community. We hear about developments and then start to organize for each campaign, purely reactive.

Now look at CycleTO, a volunteer-run organization that proactively lobbies for policy change. They are currently 3,000 member strong with a target of 10,000 members by 2018. They are a powerful voice at city hall and have concrete results to show, from building protected bike lanes to repealing by-laws.

Now imagine if we had such a group to advocate for us. Motorcycles/Scooters are part of the solution to the congestion problem, it's an easy sell.

 

[Face]

A few of us did that. I hit the area around Ryerson, but wasn't the only person to do it there.

My email to those who are overseeing the pilot project:

Hi Folks,

From the various city releases that I've seen it is unclear whether passenger vehicles are specifically excluded from parking in the designated motorcycle parking areas, if there is enforcement of this, or if the existing areas are to be treated as 'just a suggestion.' I have already heard multiple reports that the designated areas are insufficient for the existing motorcycle traffic, in those areas, and that passenger vehicles are blocking spaces now designated as motorcycle parking. Based on the lack of advertising for this initiative and the rather small signage this might be forgiven, but it will not give you a clear picture of needed space.

Thank you,

Nice E-mail Rob. Let us know if you get a response, or if they ignore you.

Pint? You don't have to twist my arm too hard. Where & when.

 

[FLSTC]

I'd suggest that the signs sectioning off the pay&display zones should say 'Motorcycle parking ONLY April 1st to September 31st' and be enforced as such. The signs should be larger. Maybe angled hash lines on the pavement in that area would also help.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

I'd suggest that the signs sectioning off the pay&display zones should say 'Motorcycle parking ONLY April 1st to September 31st' and be enforced as such. The signs should be larger. Maybe angled hash lines on the pavement in that area would also help.

Something like that would make perfect sense, but it's not been mentioned in anything that I've read. Definitely a flawed pilot.

 

[kiwi]

Something like that would make perfect sense, but it's not been mentioned in anything that I've read. Definitely a flawed pilot.

so I just walked by Simcoe street. BOTH the parking bays just north of King/Simcoe have the yellow motorcycle/scooter signs.. Thats awesome that they've become the motorcyle parking areas, but I did see 3 service vehicles (white vans) parked there and also someone parked their car with paid Green P ticket. Its not clear if this is a motorcycle ONLY parking or available for both.

I bet the general public would see it as both, especially since it doesn't say anything about motorcycles/scooters ONLY.

 

[viper84737]

Thats awesome that they've become the motorcyle parking areas.

(sic)

That's exactly how the cash-grab begins. You can tell your children where you were the day it all fell apart.

 

[kiwi]

(sic)

That's exactly how the cash-grab begins. You can tell your children where you were the day it all fell apart.

lol.. well, Its nice to have free parking, but we know the reasons behind this was because of the existing system where green P tickets would get lost etc., so the city made an exception. With "cut the gravy", reduce costs and find new ways for earning revenue, our situation for parking motorcycles and scooters is bound to change. There was no "green" or "environmental" issue for giving us free parking.

I don't believe its a real "cash grab" (Why do Ontarian's always use this phrase??) - a real cash grab is when there is an event aty SkyDome or ACC and the private parking rate changes from $6 parking to $25. Now that's a cash grab!

btw - I just saw your link to your Nth American tour. Pretty cool!

 

[viper84737]

"Cash grab" could be pretty accurately defined as a totally unnecessary increase in prices without some equal increase in value.

Ontarians use this word a lot because this province is packed full of this kind of behavior.

"Stockholm Syndrome" is what prevents all the locals from seeing it.

 

[clutch]

lol.. well, Its nice to have free parking, but we know the reasons behind this was because of the existing system where green P tickets would get lost etc., so the city made an exception. With "cut the gravy", reduce costs and find new ways for earning revenue, our situation for parking motorcycles and scooters is bound to change. There was no "green" or "environmental" issue for giving us free parking.

Pick the fights you can win. Free parking, not likely. You can't sell that for the reasons Kiwi mentioned. Reduced parking fee for moto, reasonable. Takes up 1/4 space than a car, able to fit in between spaces cars can't, frees up more parking spaces for cars.

 

[kiwi]

"Cash grab" could be pretty accurately defined as a totally unnecessary increase in prices without some equal increase in value.

Ontarians use this word a lot because this province is packed full of this kind of behavior.

"Stockholm Syndrome" is what prevents all the locals from seeing it.

ah, 3 good points. (Esp. the last )

 

[V-Tom]

I'd suggest that the signs sectioning off the pay&display zones should say 'Motorcycle parking ONLY April 1st to September 31st' and be enforced as such. The signs should be larger. Maybe angled hash lines on the pavement in that area would also help.

April 1st to Sept 31st? Really? In the city you can pretty much all year round! Up in the Snowbelt it's typically March until November for many riders.

..Tom

 

[DDean]

Pick the fights you can win. Free parking, not likely. You can't sell that for the reasons Kiwi mentioned. Reduced parking fee for moto, reasonable. Takes up 1/4 space than a car, able to fit in between spaces cars can't, frees up more parking spaces for cars.

It has been free parking for years so Im not sure its not winnable in the future. Free parking is a great incentive to reduce wear and tear on the roads, reduce traffic and reduce emissions. All of those benefit the city and Im sure Im not the only one who is likely to go back to commuting in a car should motorcycle parking not be free. The more people who do that, the WORSE it is for the City.

More bikes = good for city.
Charging for parking = fewer bikes.

Pretty simple. It will probably take them a couple years to get payback on those kiosks. Why not just introduce it with lower rates when it comes for cars? Remove the headaches around what happens when cars park in the designated bike spots, or they are full of bikes, and bikes park outside of an area controlled by pay by plate. We know that pay and display doesnt work. What then?

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Nice E-mail Rob. Let us know if you get a response, or if they ignore you.

Pint? You don't have to twist my arm too hard. Where & when.

Thanks. I sent it from my old "torontoriders" email account, too, that I used to use for the Toronto Area Riders Association years back. I knew I kept it for a reason.

 

[Face]

It has been free parking for years so Im not sure its not winnable in the future. Free parking is a great incentive to reduce wear and tear on the roads, reduce traffic and reduce emissions. All of those benefit the city and Im sure Im not the only one who is likely to go back to commuting in a car should motorcycle parking not be free. The more people who do that, the WORSE it is for the City.

More bikes = good for city.
Charging for parking = fewer bikes.

Pretty simple. It will probably take them a couple years to get payback on those kiosks. Why not just introduce it with lower rates when it comes for cars? Remove the headaches around what happens when cars park in the designated bike spots, or they are full of bikes, and bikes park outside of an area controlled by pay by plate. We know that pay and display doesnt work. What then?

A number of those other reasons were included in the report & motion when free parking was first approved in 2005, but loss of tickets/enforceability was the big reason. The main question with pay-by-plate will be cost to implement a 2-rate fare structure (1/4 rate for m/c' as we take up 1/4 the space) vs extra revenue generated by m/c's. Plus this 2-rate system needs to be implemented everywhere, not just dedicated m/c spaces. Maintaining free parking would be great and would recognize those other benefits, but I think this is a fair compromise.

 

[Riceburner]

this get posted yet?

Motorcycle and Scooter Parking Pilot
Overview
The City of Toronto along with the Toronto Parking Authority is introducing designated on-street motorcycle and scooter parking zones in certain existing locations operated with pay-and-display machines on a pilot basis to provide safe, convenient parking for motorcyclists. These parking zones will be defined by line markings on the pavement and signage. The purpose of the pilot is to encourage motorcyclists to park legally on city streets and to park within the pay-and-display area in a controlled fashion to maximize available parking.

Parking in these designated locations will be free of charge to motorcycles and scooters, consistent with the City of Toronto's existing practice with respect to locations solely operated by way of pay-and-displays machines.


Pilot Scope and Proposed Parking Locations
Approximately 300 motorcycle spaces have been allocated in existing pay and display locations. The pilot project will focus on areas in the downtown core that were observed to have a significant number of motorcycles or scooters parked regularly.

Toronto Parking Authority staff will monitor the sites throughout the year to determine usage and compliance. The program will be evaluated over a one year period with final recommendations in the Fall of 2015.

The 30 locations selected for the pilot project are shown below and in the map provided. Details for each location can also be viewed by clicking on the 'List View' tab below.

http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/c...nnel=e10086195a7c1410VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD



Updated: September 15, 2014
6 of the 30 parking locations have been installed and are now active:
Peter Street
Simcoe Street
Simcoe Street
James Street
Victoria Street
Colborne Street

 

[clutch]

this get posted yet?
http://www1.toronto.ca/wps/portal/c...nnel=e10086195a7c1410VgnVCM10000071d60f89RCRD

Thanks for the link. That page provides an email address (OPandP@toronto.ca) for feedback. I just sent the following message:

"The purpose of the pilot is to encourage motorcyclists to park legally on city streets and to park within the pay-and-display area in a controlled fashion to maximize available parking."

Motorcycles and scooters take up 1/4 the space that a car would. They can fit in between spaces that cars can't fit. Restricting them to designated spots would waste all the open street parking spaces that cars can't fit in, but is perfect for motorcycles and scooters. If you want to maximize available parking then allow motorcycles/scooters to park in these in-between spaces.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Thanks for the link. That page provides an email address (OPandP@toronto.ca) for feedback. I just sent the following message:

The email that I sent and quoted, above, was sent on last Thursday and I've not yet received a reply.

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