kiwi
Well-known member
Just met Face here at L& L he's walking around with a bundle of papers in his arms
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 4
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Motorcycle Parking Fees Recommended without Notice or Public Consultation
- Thread starter Rob MacLennan
- Start date
Face
Well-known member
I'm around. Grey Olympia jacket & papers in my hand. Flag me down if you want to talk about this!
Face
Well-known member
I hung out till about 10:15, then left. I talked to some people, but many were unaware &/or not too interested in doing much. Hopefully more people will take an interest otherwise we will find ourselves screwed for parking & wondering what the frack just happened.
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I found your paper slip on my m/c yesterday afternoon at Simcoe & Adelaide. I just wanted to show my support and let you know your efforts are not going unnoticed. I will be emailing my councillor as well as attending the October 8th meeting, and will be checking this forum regularly for updates going forwards. It seems with all the relevant transit and congestion problems in the city, this would be taking a step backwards for Toronto.
Sorry I couldn't get away from home as early as planned so missed meeting up with you guys.
I spoke with a number of riders at L&L last night later on: there is a definite split between those who ride just for pleasure, and those who ride full time or to commute. Also at L&L there are a lot who live and work outside TO who just come to town for the meet.
Though it is good to put everyone on notice and get some noise right now, the fight will really only just begin with the adoption of the committee recommendations (which it seems will likely happen). I don't think there will ever be enough of us in sheer number to put the fear of god into those on council who a) think we should pay, or b) don't care either way.
We need PR. We need a message that makes it look like council would be making a really dumb move.
If a lot of growth in bikes and scooters is possibly linked to commuting, then a push -- or at least an assist -- from the manufacturers could help both our causes. There is also potentially the CAA who have an interest in those of us who are members as well as in reducing gridlock for cars. Maybe even look at green orgs who may oppose any regressive actions that look or smell like they don't put the environment in high priority.
Lastly, we should recognize that what happens in Toronto will likely affect other regions around the world. Cities watch each other.
I spoke with a number of riders at L&L last night later on: there is a definite split between those who ride just for pleasure, and those who ride full time or to commute. Also at L&L there are a lot who live and work outside TO who just come to town for the meet.
Though it is good to put everyone on notice and get some noise right now, the fight will really only just begin with the adoption of the committee recommendations (which it seems will likely happen). I don't think there will ever be enough of us in sheer number to put the fear of god into those on council who a) think we should pay, or b) don't care either way.
We need PR. We need a message that makes it look like council would be making a really dumb move.
If a lot of growth in bikes and scooters is possibly linked to commuting, then a push -- or at least an assist -- from the manufacturers could help both our causes. There is also potentially the CAA who have an interest in those of us who are members as well as in reducing gridlock for cars. Maybe even look at green orgs who may oppose any regressive actions that look or smell like they don't put the environment in high priority.
Lastly, we should recognize that what happens in Toronto will likely affect other regions around the world. Cities watch each other.
Oops, duh moment. Take take note: don't ever let me lead a group ride ;-)
I was told by a co-worker that someone else already got most of the bikes around the Ryerson campus, so I'll hang onto my tags for stragglers.
I took a stab at writing up a core messaging document that could be used as an info piece or incorporated into a press release. I think congestion and environment are the two key issues that will probably resonate most.
Thoughts?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/07fe9fqx01f7eme/2 Wheels TO-v1.0.pdf
Thoughts?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/07fe9fqx01f7eme/2 Wheels TO-v1.0.pdf
Thx for keeping on top of this issue everybody. I've been keeping an eye on this thread since the first few pages (I'm a champion lurker hehe), and am suprised and angered they want to push this thru.
Those that don't think this will have any effect on them need to realise it's in their best interest to still join our cause. Sooner or later they'll find themselves downtown looking for parking. I myself won't be too effected as I'm fortunate enough to have free parking at work, but it's nice to know if I go anywhere else downtown, parking wouldn't be an issue. And as a community as small as we are, we need to stick together.
There are quite a few bikes that street-park near my work on Murray St. and on my way home (Balmuto St., just west of Yonge). I'll print out some of those notes and tag those bikes. I'll also try to make it to the council meeting on the 8th as well.
Those that don't think this will have any effect on them need to realise it's in their best interest to still join our cause. Sooner or later they'll find themselves downtown looking for parking. I myself won't be too effected as I'm fortunate enough to have free parking at work, but it's nice to know if I go anywhere else downtown, parking wouldn't be an issue. And as a community as small as we are, we need to stick together.
There are quite a few bikes that street-park near my work on Murray St. and on my way home (Balmuto St., just west of Yonge). I'll print out some of those notes and tag those bikes. I'll also try to make it to the council meeting on the 8th as well.
So how did motorcyclists ever deal with this before free parking was implemented in 2005? It's not like we've always had it.
Poorly. You paid for a ticket that you had to display on your bike, that more often than not blew off your bike or was stolen by a cager, who could then park for free while you got a ticket. Pay by plate would take care of this but would the major changes required to implement it actually result in net income for the city, or would it just be another waste of taxpayers' money?
Face
Well-known member
X, sorry I couldn't access your dropbox file. I got error message 404 when I clicked on your link. Could be me, so I'll PM you with my e-mail address & you can send it to me.
I've sent the following in an e-mail to Betsy Powell, the Toronto City Hall reporter at The Star who wrote the first article on this. I attached the 2005 approval with all the reasons why free parking was approved in the first place, the November 2011 Motion which started the whole thing, and the Issues List we generated and sent to staff back in December 2011. She volunteered that she was a scooter rider who was affected by the sidewalk parking issue.
Public Works and Infrastructure Committee adopted the recommendations in a staff report that was initiated by a surprise motion by Councillor Del Grande back at the November 29 & 30 /December 1, 2011 Council Meeting. That motion directed staff to report back to the February 6 & 7, 2012 Public Works and Infrastructure Committee meeting. When this motion came forward, there was significant interest and concern from the riding community. I put together an Issues List generated from comments on the GTA Motorcycle Forum at the time (attached), and submitted it to staff for their consideration as part of their review. I, along with a number of other riders put our names forward to both Works staff and the Clerks department requesting to be part of the community consultation process for this issue, and to be notified when any reports were being brought forward.
1 and a half years after the reporting deadline, we thought that this issue had disappeared as quickly as it had appeared. But then it showed up on last Friday’s agenda with no notice to anyone who requested it, and no public consultation. When I spoke with the report’s author, Jacqueline White, she had no record of people who had contacted Works staff about this issue. When I spoke with Janice *****, Committee Secretary for the Public Works and Infrastructure Committee in the Clerks Department, she advised that they also did not keep a record of people's request for notification about this issue, and that posting the agenda on the City's web site was all the notification that is required. Agendas typically become available to the public only 1 week before the Committee meeting, which is the only opportunity for the public to speak on the matter. The public will not be allowed to speak when this is heard at Council on October 8th.
The Motion from Councillor Del Grande (attached) did not direct staff to look at the merits of charging for motorcycle parking or not, but just presumed a decision that Council was never asked to make (to charge or not), and looked for options to implement and enforce charging. The motion directed staff to "report ... on options for the implementation and enforcement of parking charges and fees regarding motorcycles and motor scooters". This motion, and the September 12, 2013 staff report, which was adopted by Committee on September 20th do not address all of the broader issues put forward when the motorcycle parking exemptions were first introduced (the whereas clauses on pg 5 of the attached October 2005 Council Minutes). We believe that public consultation is necessary to take us back to a full and proper consideration of the essential question of whether or not to charge. Other than the potential for Pay-by-Plate technology to resolve the issue of theft of Pay-&-Display receipts, none of the other reasons to allow free parking have changed.
The September 12, 2013 staff report proposes to create a total of 300 dedicated motorcycle parking spaces in 25 locations throughout the City, and to allow free parking in those spaces until pay-by-plate technology can be deployed. They then plan to charge motorcycles at a rate of 25 to 50 percent of the rates charged to cars. The pay-by-plate pilot program is scheduled to begin in the Spring of 2014. When I spoke with the report’s author, Jacqueline White, she said the 300 new dedicated motorcycle/scooter spaces are a response to concerns raised by riders about avoiding damage by cars, by parking on the sidewalk. Apparently this was stated as a reason why some scooters were parking on the sidewalk instead of the street. She could not advise as to where the proposed 300 spaces would be, and she appeared to not have considered whether motorcycles/scooters would be allowed to park in regular parking areas, and how they would be charged for using street parking outside the 300 designated spaces if they were even allowed.
When Pay-and-Display was first introduced, no one considered the difficulty implementing this system for motorcycles and scooters. That was one of the reasons that the parking exemption was later introduced in 2005 (along with encouraging a more environmentally and space efficient mode of transportation). We have similar concerns that these new recommendations could seriously limit the availability and viability of motorcycle/scooter parking on streets, also potentially exacerbating the sidewalk scooter parking problem. We think this issue could be much better addressed with meaningful consultation with the people who know the issue best, the Toronto riding community.
Riders are currently writing their local Councillors in the hope that Council will bring forward a motion to direct staff to consult with the riding community before anything is implemented, and that direct notification be provided to anyone who has requested it, prior to any information meetings, reports and/or by-laws to be brought forward. We hope that through this consultation, the broader scope of issues can be considered, and the potential ramification for different solutions can be explored, thus avoiding some of the problems of the past.
Hopefully I will hear back from her and she'll do a follow-up article. I will follow up.
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Face
Well-known member
I had meetings downtown yesterday & this morning, so I hit the area around King w of University & north of City Hall yesterday afternoon, then around Yonge/Dundas, Victoria St, Dalhousie St until I ran out partly down Toronto St this morning. I printed out 200, and that barely scratched the surface.
Based in this small sampling, its pretty clear that 300 spots for the whole City is a gross underestimation. If these new rules end up precluding m/c's from regular spaces, or charge full fair, it will result in a significant shortfall. When you consider that many underground garages don't allow motorcycles, we won't have any options at all.
I did another pass around 1:00pm, on the bikes along Bond. Just the bikes on the north and south sides of the Ryerson quad take up 10 percent of those 300 spots.
I
igormon
Guest
Got a paper at Ryerson. Thanks, now I know and will be writing for sure.
Probably the best time to put these at Ryerson is sometime middle of the week around 10. That's usually when I cant find a parking spot with the other bikes
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Probably the best time to put these at Ryerson is sometime middle of the week around 10. That's usually when I cant find a parking spot with the other bikes
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