Motor Vehicle Fitness Certificates

[TK4]

From Ken's Motoworks-
I'm sure most motorcyclists are not aware, but the Ontario Ministry of transportation is drastically changing the way motorcycle and all other safeties are done. No more paper safeties with the possibilities of bogus inspections being done. The impetus for this was a lot of bogus and therefore potentially dangerous truck safeties been done by unscrupulous shops.
It's now done on MTO dedicated tablets that you have to get from them, with pictures and video of inspections being done required, including headlight aim, which is extremely subjective on a motorcycle as it changes with the ride load etc. etc.
This will require an investment by shops in between $2,000 and $3,000 for the approved tools. Plus certifications will now take anywhere between two and five hours to complete depending on the bike.
A lot of smaller shops will just stop doing certifications. I've been in contact with some of the bigger guys around And they are throwing prices of certifications around in this new system of between $300 and $600. To quote one service manager " this is going to kill that used bike market"
I fully agree with the Truck issue and even cars..( it was incredibly easy to cheat the system before) but bikes sales are are going to be greatly influenced by this drastic new system.
Regardless of the cost, doing certifications this new way will easily double or triple the time required which for me as I'm already swamped with work is not a good thing.

 

[TK4]

It seems to me that this change came about because the MTO isn't doing it's job - either due to lack of manpower or provincial government mandate. It's another example of Doug and his inept crew dumping something back on private business that it should be handling itself. But what do I know, I'll be getting a $200 bribe instead.

 

[Wind Shear]

Source that this will apply to anything beyond heavy duty/commercial vehicles? I can’t find only find debatable verbiage as this:

Emissions tests not required for light-duty and passenger vehicles​

DriveON will not include new testing requirements or fees for light-duty and passenger vehicles. There will be no changes to the existing safety inspection requirements. Emissions tests will only be required for the same types of heavy-duty diesel commercial motor vehicles that currently require tests.

DriveON: Emissions and safety inspection program

Learn about the new emissions and safety inspection program for heavy-duty diesel commercial, light-duty and passenger motor vehicles.

www.ontario.ca

 

[TK4]

'We're not ready': Mechanics say Ontario's new vehicle inspection program has problems

Several mechanics, tasked with ensuring large trucks, busses and RVs are safe to drive on Ontario roads, say they still lack the framework to perform the new inspections.

toronto.citynews.ca

This is specifically for heavy duty (read: diesels) but other folks I've spoken to in the automotive and motorcycle business have said they've been told it's coming for them too.

 

[TK4]

Source that this will apply to anything beyond heavy duty/commercial vehicles? I can’t find only find debatable verbiage as this:

Emissions tests not required for light-duty and passenger vehicles​

DriveON will not include new testing requirements or fees for light-duty and passenger vehicles. There will be no changes to the existing safety inspection requirements. Emissions tests will only be required for the same types of heavy-duty diesel commercial motor vehicles that currently require tests.

DriveON: Emissions and safety inspection program

Learn about the new emissions and safety inspection program for heavy-duty diesel commercial, light-duty and passenger motor vehicles.

www.ontario.ca

We're not talking about the old 'Clean Air' inspections, these are safeties that will need to be done to transfer ownership.

 

[GreyGhost]

From Ken's Motoworks-
I'm sure most motorcyclists are not aware, but the Ontario Ministry of transportation is drastically changing the way motorcycle and all other safeties are done. No more paper safeties with the possibilities of bogus inspections being done. The impetus for this was a lot of bogus and therefore potentially dangerous truck safeties been done by unscrupulous shops.
It's now done on MTO dedicated tablets that you have to get from them, with pictures and video of inspections being done required, including headlight aim, which is extremely subjective on a motorcycle as it changes with the ride load etc. etc.
This will require an investment by shops in between $2,000 and $3,000 for the approved tools. Plus certifications will now take anywhere between two and five hours to complete depending on the bike.
A lot of smaller shops will just stop doing certifications. I've been in contact with some of the bigger guys around And they are throwing prices of certifications around in this new system of between $300 and $600. To quote one service manager " this is going to kill that used bike market"
I fully agree with the Truck issue and even cars..( it was incredibly easy to cheat the system before) but bikes sales are are going to be greatly influenced by this drastic new system.
Regardless of the cost, doing certifications this new way will easily double or triple the time required which for me as I'm already swamped with work is not a good thing.

View attachment 70982

There seems to be some confusion going on there. As a start, the image is a DOT required package. That isn't canada. I havent heard of heavy equipment shops needing any equipment beyond what they already had (other than the tablet). It would be easier for everyone if douggie just released the plan publicly instead of whispering to shops and denying to citizens.

 

[TK4]

There seems to be some confusion going on there. As a start, the image is a DOT required package. That isn't canada. I havent heard of heavy equipment shops needing any equipment beyond what they already had (other than the tablet). It would be easier for everyone if douggie just released the plan publicly instead of whispering to shops and denying to citizens.

Wouldn't it ? I guess he's terrified of upsetting his 'folks'...

 

[GreyGhost]

Wouldn't it ? I guess he's terrified of upsetting his 'folks'...

My suspicion is the announcement comes after the election. I still think he is aiming for recurrent safeties and per km charge as a road tax. If per km charge has a weight factor, EV's and bigger vehicles that wear the road more can pay more. Recurrent safeties would mostly wipe out bro-dozers, stupid headlight swaps, decat's and plate covers within a few cycles. Very few people will take the time to swap to pass the safety and swap back after.

 

[TK4]

My suspicion is the announcement comes after the election. I still think he is aiming for recurrent safeties and per km charge as a road tax. If per km charge has a weight factor, EV's and bigger vehicles that wear the road more can pay more. Recurrent safeties would mostly wipe out bro-dozers, stupid headlight swaps, decat's and plate covers within a few cycles. Very few people will take the time to swap to pass the safety and swap back after.

It's supposed to roll out starting January 2025, that doesn't give him much time...? And at what cost ?

 

[GreyGhost]

It's supposed to roll out starting January 2025, that doesn't give him much time...? And at what cost ?

Heavy equipment got a very long lead time before rollout. I will be shocked if this is publicly announced yet alone rolled out by Jan 2025. As for the cost, when has douggie ever cared about cost or value for money? He learned too many of the bad things from JT's success in virtue signalling and expensive programs that fix nothing.

 

[TK4]

Heavy equipment got a very long lead time before rollout. I will be shocked if this is publicly announced yet alone rolled out by Jan 2025. As for the cost, when has douggie ever cared about cost or value for money? He learned too many of the bad things from JT's success in virtue signalling and expensive programs that fix nothing.

Yeah you're likely right, whatever happened to the Ferris wheel on the waterfront ?

 

[TwistedKestrel]

It's supposed to roll out starting January 2025, that doesn't give him much time...? And at what cost ?

If this was rolled out January 2025 that would be an unprecedented success by the Ontario government.

Although if I put my cynical hat on for a moment, Doug has established a pattern with "allying" with large private franchises to make things appear successful. Imagine say, all Canadian Tires in the province being magically equipped for passenger vehicle DriveON by Jan 2025. And CT helpfully becomes the distributor for the mandatory equipment for everyone else in the province

 

[GreyGhost]

If this was rolled out January 2025 that would be an unprecedented success by the Ontario government.

Although if I put my cynical hat on for a moment, Doug has established a pattern with "allying" with large private franchises to make things appear successful. Imagine say, all Canadian Tires in the province being magically equipped for passenger vehicle DriveON by Jan 2025. And CT helpfully becomes the distributor for the mandatory equipment for everyone else in the province

That ship has already sailed. Parsons is the partner that provides the tablets and database.

Fwiw, every licensed shop got one "free" tablet when they registered for the new program. Additional tablets are $1399.

MTO Issues Detailed Info for Next Phase of DriveON Program - Ontario Trucking Association

In a memorandum received Friday evening, the Ministry of Transportation (MTO) provided details to industry stakeholders of how it plans to roll out Phase 2 of its DriveON program. The new DriveON program combines the heavy-duty diesel vehicle emissions testing program and MTO’s Motor Vehicle...

ontruck.org

 

[TwistedKestrel]

Right, I was just thinking about another layer. To "help" Parsons, since they had trouble meeting demand for the first rollout.

 

[GreyGhost]

Right, I was just thinking about another layer. To "help" Parsons, since they had trouble meeting demand for the first rollout.

Having a local outlet for tablets would be convenient. As a shop, I would be concerned about only having a single tablet in case something happened to it. That means you need to have a $1400 tablet sitting in a drawer just in case you need it. If I knew I could get my hands on a new tablet within two hours, I don't need to keep the spare in stock. For larger shops, I don't know if they are getting one per tech or a couple for the shop or what they think the best program is.

 

[TK4]

Having a local outlet for tablets would be convenient. As a shop, I would be concerned about only having a single tablet in case something happened to it. That means you need to have a $1400 tablet sitting in a drawer just in case you need it. If I knew I could get my hands on a new tablet within two hours, I don't need to keep the spare in stock. For larger shops, I don't know if they are getting one per tech or a couple for the shop or what they think the best program is.

How long until the hackers find a way to circumvent the system ?

 

[GreyGhost]

How long until the hackers find a way to circumvent the system ?

No idea. If I were Parson's I'd be keeping a close eye on new shops applying (especially in Brampton). Most established shops wouldn't risk their license. If funny business is detected, it's easy to suspend that users access to the database. No database access means no ability to print legitimate stickers. If there is fraud, I suspect it will be far simpler and include shops printing photoshopped stickers and bypassing the official system entirely. The trucking company can argue that they paid for a real safety and didn't realize they got a fraudulent one. All comes apart the first time an inspector scans the qr code or runs the vin though.

 

[d4rktrooper788]

My mechanic told me that this is being rolled out for cars starting in 2025. I found this link (page 2 "Personal Vehicle Owners") which talks about paper safeties being no more and safety results being uploaded to the ministry directly.

 

[GreyGhost]

My mechanic told me that this is being rolled out for cars starting in 2025. I found this link (page 2 "Personal Vehicle Owners") which talks about paper safeties being no more and safety results being uploaded to the ministry directly.

According to that the only change for safety is no paper. To change the branding of a vehicle appears to follow the heavy path and requires upload of photos as evidence.

 

[High Flya]

According to that the only change for safety is no paper. To change the branding of a vehicle appears to follow the heavy path and requires upload of photos as evidence.

I'm pretty sure this is already a thing. When I bought my latest car last year and got it safetied, the girl at Service Ontario didn't even bother asking me for copy of the safety when I got it plated, she said it's already in the system.