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MotoGP 2017
- Thread starter johnscruiser
- Start date
Riceburner
Well-known member
It's about the team/manufacturer winning the championship that they haven't in 10 years. Rae did it to let Sykes take 2nd place in the championship before, making a Kawi 1 + 2. Titles means $$$$$$ for the factories.
yup. Gifting riders wins/positions is for the greater good of the team. Riders would have to life with the idea that their championship was aided my team orders, especially if it made a material difference to their championship.
Interesting question though - would you rather be a champion knowing you needed/had help, or finish 2nd knowing that you did all you could and it was hard earned. I go back and forth on that one.
Yep. But there's substantial bonuses + sponsorship opportunities for winning a championship. Your conscience might suffer a little, but your wallet definitely won't.
And years later, in the record books, not many people will remember there were team orders for a single deciding race.
Riceburner
Well-known member
How you got there won't necessarily live as long as that you got to #1. And the $$$$ for that sure helps to buffer that you got #1 with help. Then again it's a team effort to get to the top spot anyways.
PsychoKat
Well-known member
Yeah, riders don't care how they got the championship, teams don't either. Down the line, only ones who'll remember are haters. It's as much about luck as it is about skill anyway.
And I don't care as a viewer either. All I care about is a good season race by race. These things remind me of '06. Fact of the matter is, it's Honda's fault for mucking up the first part of the year, maybe Marquez that wasn't able to deal with it, maybe the weather bucketing all year long, who knows, who cares. It is what it is and Dovi was the most consistent all year round. Team orders can't take that away from them. I always root for the underdog anyway.
And I don't care as a viewer either. All I care about is a good season race by race. These things remind me of '06. Fact of the matter is, it's Honda's fault for mucking up the first part of the year, maybe Marquez that wasn't able to deal with it, maybe the weather bucketing all year long, who knows, who cares. It is what it is and Dovi was the most consistent all year round. Team orders can't take that away from them. I always root for the underdog anyway.
Winales_2017
Well-known member
Honda and HRC essentially just finalized constructor's championship last race in Sepang, unless you have double DNFs, so that prize (and any constructors purse) can already be considered awarded to them, Yamaha and Ducati are still battling for 2nd.
http://www.crash.net/MotoGP/championship_tables/content
I think people still look down on Lorenzo for the '15 championship, despite the time that has passed as we have seen in this thread, so its hard to say that will simply vanish. Dovi rode well this year, showing that the Ducati had potential and had JLO gotten to grip with it sooner we could have seen a 5-way battle for the championship, but Marc has hit a stride that i don't think anyone could really match this year--Mav looked like the likely contender given his early streak, but teh M1 proved to have issues towards mid-season.
What's harder to wrap my head around despite being a fan is that Marc is likely to win 4 out of 5 MotoGP championships he has ever competed in, that's 80% domination in an era when you have had a largest concentration of talent in decades whilst last year marked the most amount of individual race winners in a single season! And he is only 23!
What's sad is that I think that even IF Dovi managed to close this one by some miracle, JLO would still continue to be paid more, and would likely have the Team's backing in terms of development for the 2018 bike. Ducati wants a ROI on him/his contract along with the cache and sponsors he could bring in.
I feel the same for the most part, and despite HRC's acceleration issues in the early part of the year for at least 2 seasons in a row now, the simple truth is had Marc's engine not let go at Silverstone the rider's championship would have been wrapped in Motegi regardless how consistent Dovi was this season; that was the miracle of the season that kept it open for him, not his riding. Asking for another one is like asking lightening to strike twice in the same exact spot.
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PsychoKat
Well-known member
Well, of course, but that's over and done with and Dovi won that one. Both bike and rider (edit:and luck) win a championship and that day, Marquez lost. Dovi was never going to win the championship, hell, I thought it'd be done by last race. So, no, I'm still impressed as ever.
As for Marquez, it's not really surprising. I predicted in 2012 he was gonna win 2014-2018. He got the one I didn't expect until Lorenzo and particularly Pedrosa "let him" pass them both in the points and lost the one to Lorenzo when Honda hit bottom and he wasn't equipped to handle it. All in all, he's right on track and I still think he'll get next year too.
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Yeah, when MM kicks VR46's brake lever.
I'd like to see what info you have to support that claim. All objective evidence shows exactly the opposite.
In the two laps before Marquez fell (laps 5 and 6), Rossi averaged 2:02.15. Then the two laps after that (laps 8 and 9) he averaged 2:01.85. Marquez was slowing him down. Not only did Rossi's lap times improve by 0.3s a lap in absolute terms, but relative to others he gained even more as the average lap time for the field was 0.3s slower when comparing those same laps.
Not only did Marquez slow Rossi's pace but he slowed down his championship by failing to race Lorenzo, letting him gain a bigger points advantage.
So, on what do you base your claim that Rossi's laps didn't improve?
redridernl
Well-known member
He didn't fail to race Lorenzo. He had a moment and Rossi caught him. Lap times relative to the field are absolutely meaningless. Lap times to the leaders are what counts. As covered in the 2nd article. Anyone willing to look at the events objectively can see what actually happened.
https://www.superbikeplanet.com/ryder-notes-this-will-be-continued/
http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/224643/1/motogp-malaysia-rossi-marquez-lap-times
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Whether he let Lorenzo by or honestly screwed up is subjective, but it's beside the point. I shouldn't have mentioned that but I'll be happy to show you why you're wrong separately after you admit this demonstrable error in fact.
The point is you said he wasn't slowing Rossi down when in fact the lap times show otherwise. That's objective. Your second link even shows that. And it wasn't that the track got faster, which could explain whatever Rossi gained/lost and which is why the lap times for the whole field matter.
redridernl
Well-known member
It's not subjective, it's mentioned in the article and visible on screen. You're being purposely obtuse.
I've provided links. The authors of which support my side in writing. You have provided nothing other than your own opinions.
4:04.3 is the time it took him to do two laps when Marquez was racing him. 4:03.7 is the time it took him to do two laps without Marquez. That's not opinion. He went faster without Marquez. And the authors you link to don't say otherwise, only you have. You've basically contradicted the official timekeepers and dismissed it as opinion.
Until you show evidence the official timekeepers were wrong, I'm going to conclude that Marquez slowed Rossi down.
redridernl
Well-known member
Conclude whatever you want. You still haven't provided evidence of any sort. At least I provided articles by people who cover the sport for a living who, regardless of lap times, believe that Rossi brought the entire situation on himself.
Based on some of your other posts, I believe you're arguing for argument sake perhaps out of boredom so I won't engage further.
You need me to provide a link to the official lap times? They're in your own links anyways FFS!
BTW the lap times aren't affected by any pundits, that's kinda the way objective evidence works.
Not specifically Dorna but it was causing some issues for gtamotorcycle
Yep, race will stream. Can't guarantee it'll stay up on MontrealSSD or NY as technically Dorna could take those down, but they can never take down Amsterdam
I will post in here like normal when the streams are starting. Check the webpage at the top of the first post in this thread for links.
chdr
Active member
Not specifically Dorna but it was causing some issues for gtamotorcycle
Yep, race will stream. Can't guarantee it'll stay up on MontrealSSD or NY as technically Dorna could take those down, but they can never take down Amsterdam
I will post in here like normal when the streams are starting. Check the webpage at the top of the first post in this thread for links.
g`day A9 man sorry to hear that they took down all the links /files i have bookmarked the page you posted will you still be posting the torrents for this weekend as they work better for me my home connection is really bad for streaming 3rd world internet in oz ethiopia has better/ faster internet than oz lol (thats not a joke either its fact )
its been a great year of racing and i was really looking forward to the last race and seeing jack miller on the ducati in the testing i think the bike will suit him and his style let's hope he adapts to it quicker than lorenzo did
fingers crossed all goes as usual for the weekend and testing
cheers
chdr
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