MotoGP 2015 | Page 112 | GTAMotorcycle.com

MotoGP 2015

Neil_V said:
And on the other side.. Spies, Brookes, Edwards, Hodgson, Laverty, Ianonne, McWilliams.. I'm sure I've missed a few. Add to that countless blogsters, reporters, and talking heads... Better just dismiss it :rolleyes:
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they're not on the otherside. they are arguing two different things. One argument is that Rossi did not have the pace on his own to be JL and he was relying on others to help take points away from JL. The other they were arguing that MM was sandbagging/not helping VR. These can both be true.

If VR was faster, he would not have needed help from others, nor would he have gotten caught up with MM.
 
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redridernl said:
I'm willing to bet the talking heads, reporters, and *bloggers* you're referring to don't have the experience and insider knowledge of the ones I mentioned. Anyone Italian or Spanish should be discounted, regardless of which side they fall on. Nationalism seems to be having a major impact on opinions.

You've mentioned some good riders, are their opinions more valid than Schwantz, Fogarty and others? Riders are just as likely to be willing to give Rossi the benefit of doubt as anyone else and are equally subject to bias. Edwards and Ianonne should be immediately discounted as friends of Rossi and Hodgson is a wanker, just ask Miller.
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Fogarty? you mean the guy who did this:

[video=youtube;0reDo9JIdDM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0reDo9JIdDM[/video]

And why is Hodgson a wanker? .... And I'll refrain from asking some roudy 20 year old about someone's character
 
Chaos said:
they're not on the otherside. they are arguing two different things. One argument is that Rossi did not have the pace on his own to be JL and he was relying on others to help take points away from JL. The other they were arguing that MM was sandbagging/not helping VR. These can both be true.

If VR was faster, he would not have needed help from others, nor would he have gotten caught up with MM.
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I can agree with those points.
 
redridernl said:
Two quotes from the Schwantz article. He didn't say Marquez is an angel but he took a dump all over the conspiracy theorists. This is more or less the opinion of Motomatters.com, Oxley (Rossi's biographer), Gavin Emmet, and Julian Ryder. Big names who know more about the sport and people involved than anyone here.
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The only thing that I didn't like in his discussion is that he was willing to give MM a pass on the Malaysia episode but then concluded that MM made no attempts in Spain since he was afraid of influencing the outcome. The influence had already been dealt out tho by MM in Sepang.

I don't think that there was any conspiracy or collusion. Collusion takes two parties to be in agreement. While JL may have benefited from the lack of attack from MM in Spain, I doubt he had any doing in the situation.

I believe that Rossi undid himself. If he hadn't said anything before Malaysia who know how MM would have raced the last 2 rounds.

I do believe tho that MM had far more deeper intentions in Malaysia. I do not believe for a minute that he was looking to hold VR up at all. The abrupt movements and speed variations suggest to me he intended to influence VR to be in the dirt.

When it came to Spain, while he was likely lectured about staying out of the way of JL and VR, I believe that he would have done anything to hold 2nd thereby ensuring VR was not the Champion.

Too bad. MM's disapproval of VR did attempt to influence the outcome of the championship. Did he influence it enough to make a difference? Doubt it. But it is I believe illogical to argue that he had not made his attempts, with full knowledge that he was acting in both of the last 2 races to influence the championship. He should have been focused on getting his best result instead.

I fault VR for thinking he could manipulate MM to go and beat JL.

I fault MM for trying to do anything but go racing.

I accept as a normal part of racing that 1 teammate may act to protect his teammate to achieve a goal.

I struggle when another party attempts the same action/result.
 
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Chaos said:
they're not on the otherside. they are arguing two different things. One argument is that Rossi did not have the pace on his own to be JL and he was relying on others to help take points away from JL. The other they were arguing that MM was sandbagging/not helping VR. These can both be true.

If VR was faster, he would not have needed help from others, nor would he have gotten caught up with MM.
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I get a little annoyed reading this "debate".

Rossi fans are not claiming that Rossi could have beat Lorenzo if not for the penalty. I believe that Rossi would have finished 4th even without the penalty.

The issue is that Lorenzo may not have won if Marquez was giving it an honest go. He may not have even finished 2nd with Pedrosa making up so much time. I've seen some people write that Marquez could have let Dani through because even if Lorenzo was 2nd he'd still win the championship if Rossi was 4th. Well nothing is guaranteed, Marquez can't guarantee that he won't have some sort of problem that would cause a DNF...giving Rossi 3rd and the championship title.

No one is claiming that Rossi could have beat Lorenzo in that race.... But he didn't need to. If Lorenzo finished 3rd and Rossi 4th the championship would have gone to Rossi.

Some have written that Lorenzo was faster than Rossi all season. I don't understand how anyone could write that.... He wasn't faster at Qatar, Argentina, Assen, Great Britain..... More wins? Yes. More DNFs? Yes.

With the questions surrounding Marquez's effort at Valencia it puts an asterisk next to Lorenzo's name on this championship... Without knowing what the outcome of that race would have been if it was an honest race we can't say if Lorenzo earned it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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LOL at some* ppl who still argue about MM's intention

redridernl, you can send me your VR friends and family tribute helmet. I'm happy to help you. You know the one that already looks ridiculous :

agv_gptech_helmet_rossi_faces_frontright.jpg


It would be more ridiculous for you to wear this now, ye?.
 
redridernl said:
Two quotes from the Schwantz article. He didn't say Marquez is an angel but he took a dump all over the conspiracy theorists. This is more or less the opinion of Motomatters.com, Oxley (Rossi's biographer), Gavin Emmet, and Julian Ryder. Big names who know more about the sport and people involved than anyone here.
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He didn't take a dump on anybody. He took a seat on the fence saying "I don't think there's any proof", "we can't judge", "I don't know for sure".

Except even so there are plenty of holes in his thought process. He talks as though MM was only fast on the last lap at PI, when he was fast intermittently, even in the middle of the race. Those times he kept going wide in turn one were supposedly "lessons to learn from", as if repeated basic mistakes like that are part of the learning curve for a 3 year MotoGP level rider. And he seems to suggests that if tire grip has gone away, traction control will allow a blistering last lap anyways!

For Sepang, he suggests Marquez wouldn't have ridden like he did if Rossi hadn't said anything beforehand. But even if Marquez only rode like that as a reaction to a supposed Rossi's "provocation", it would still mean MM acted like a spoiled brat. If anyone is accused (rightly or wrongly) of doing something improper, then only a petulant child would respond by displaying exceedingly improper behaviour to defend his righteousness.

Then Valencia, where he offers the excuse that MM might have been riding less aggressively out of respect for a title contender who he didn't want to interfere with. Except Marquez himself never suggested such an explanation, and it would counter 180 degrees his behaviour towards Rossi in the prior two races.

No disrespect to Schwantz himself, I know he's godlike and I'm a turd and yadda yadda yadda. I'm just criticizing some of the arguments he's provided that seem poorly thought out.
 
[video=youtube;c8JmDrkyjMc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8JmDrkyjMc[/video]
 
I will like to end the 2015 Motogp thread with this

12301499_1701185886768340_8863436717362782254_n.jpg
 
Told you what happened is bad for business. Here's the first sign of desperation:

videopass%20deal_zpsopkl6jas.jpg
 
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Lightcycle said:
It's just an off-season offer. They had the same deal last year at this time.
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Oh ok---I didn't know they had it last year because I didn't get an email. Probably because by this time I already had my membership renewed---something that's not gonna happen now.
 
Why are you so mad at Motogp? lol
Corsara said:
Oh ok---I didn't know they had it last year because I didn't get an email. Probably because by this time I already had my membership renewed---something that's not gonna happen now.
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ZX600 said:
Why are you so mad at Motogp? lol
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Not so sure anymore, probably not so mad at all at the moment. I guess once I decide something, that's it. I didn't feel happy at the end of the season, at that moment I felt strongly disappointed and felt they should have sanctioned MM in some way, even if it's just a symbolic gesture to the fans. That's when I decided I won't give them my money, so I stuck with it.
 
Way I look at it, it is about my enjoyment and not about giving them money.

I like watching whenever I want and etc
 
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