Why even bother with all this? Take the minimum wage, figure out the difference to the new $15/hr and what it would be, and just give it to everyone to be fair and square. Wynne is buying votes, and this will buy her more votes than anything else just because people will want the 'free' money. Then let's watch our economy tank and blame the next guy for our troubles. This way companies don't need to increase their salary costs, and everyone wins....except the taxpayers...wait...this has happened a few times....ah crap...
Min wage increase
- Thread starter Joe Bass
- Start date
She already introduced a pilot program for universal basic income. So yeah, free money. Just sit on your couch.
I know. My suggestion is to give the money to everyone so it's fair. Currently it's a small trial group of a few thousand. Not sure when it even starts.
48Connor
Well-known member
JTR
Well-known member
What baffles me, is when I see unions get behind this.. Like hey dumbass, YOUR wage is frozen in a contract. IF you get a raise in your next contract it will be pennies per hour and will be frozen for another 4 years, and you may have to lose thousands of dollars and possibly your home and family, striking just to get it. All while the cost of anything that a min wage worker touches, will increase drastically.
Anybody who argues against that last point obviously isn't old enough to remember the results of the last minimum wage raising spree, or just blind to it. Minimum wage has increased by 66.5% overall since I entered the workforce. If you want to know if that fixed the economy, look around you. A loaf of bread in that same time has increased by almost 300%. Some of that is obviously due to fuel and energy costs, but also largely labor.
As a unionized skilled laborer, I have busted my ***, and sacrificed, as did greatly my brothers who came before me. Simply to achieve my modest wage, that which does not really do much in today's economy. And I take great offense when people who don't have the ambition to do anything with their lives, demand to have everything handed to them. Go out and make something of your damn life, and make room in those entry level jobs for the kids who are supposed to occupy them!
Anybody who argues against that last point obviously isn't old enough to remember the results of the last minimum wage raising spree, or just blind to it. Minimum wage has increased by 66.5% overall since I entered the workforce. If you want to know if that fixed the economy, look around you. A loaf of bread in that same time has increased by almost 300%. Some of that is obviously due to fuel and energy costs, but also largely labor.
As a unionized skilled laborer, I have busted my ***, and sacrificed, as did greatly my brothers who came before me. Simply to achieve my modest wage, that which does not really do much in today's economy. And I take great offense when people who don't have the ambition to do anything with their lives, demand to have everything handed to them. Go out and make something of your damn life, and make room in those entry level jobs for the kids who are supposed to occupy them!
Think about it, what better way to eliminate your competition than by pricing them out? Labour unions stand behind minimum wage laws because it keeps unskilled labour priced out of the market. When skilled workers demand a raise, their employers immediately want to figure out how to move some of their productivity onto unskilled labour. Suddenly these scabs are commanding $15/hr when their productivity is only worth $10. Guess who doesn't get a job?
Roadghost
Well-known member
You could wipe McDonald's off the landscape tomorrow and in two weeks all of their employees would have new jobs at Wendy's, Tim's or Five Guys. And the economy? Wouldn't miss a thing. McD's transfers all their profits out of the country. They import their product from the U.S. - packaging, food, condiments, even most of the meat meaning they add little to manufacturing. For that we get $11/hour jobs with no benefits that you can get anywhere. Many fast food outlets, like KFC aren't even using Canadians anymore they're using foreign workers. Jacking up the minimum wage at fast food restaurants is a good idea in my book. It's a way of taxing profits of foreign corporations.
Hack
Well-known member
Crappy fast food joints are well on the road to almost complete automation... There are places in the world where the local McD's is staffed by 2/3 people. Everything from order taking to production is automated. The humans are there to mop the floor and clean the washrooms.
No, actually, they don't.
They pride themselves in Canadian Beef.
I have personally picked up a lot of the cuttlery, cups, foamware, and other supplies from the manufacturer that go to Martin Brower, the primary McDonalds supplier. They are produced in Canada.
Their cheese comes from Saputo, a Canadian company.
Almost all of their produce comes from Canadian suppliers short of some things like the dehydrated onions used in some burgers.
Their cooking oils are sourced by Cargill which is Canadian, and uses mostly Canadian sources. They also supply chicken for all of McDonalds poultry offerings (Nuggets, etc) from 100% Canadian sources.
Their buns are sourced solely from Canadian Bakeries across the country.
So, to the contrary, almost all of their products sold in Canada COME from Canada.
Fun fact, since we seem to be missing those in the last few responses: When the Kiosks were installed at McDonalds Canada locations it didn't cost anyone their job, it just allows the stores to move an employee from cash to a more productive position in the back...which in turn, gets you your food faster. Some locations have actually ADDED positions - if you've been to a McDonalds recently and ate in, you may have noticed a dining room host/hostess wandering around talking to customers, taking peoples trays away for them, etc. The hostess at the Trenton store actually asked if I'd like a refill on my Coke Zero when I was there last, and was also asking other guests if they'd like coffee refills, etc.
Ugh. You're so simplistic. McDonalds, along with almost every other fast food chain, is franchised. When you buy your coffee and muffin in the morning, you're spending your money in a business wholly owned and operated by fellow Canadians. They don't "transfer their profits" anywhere. They pay a fee (rightly so) and pocket the rest. That's how the business works. You're using a terrible example for your tirade.
If you wanna rant about low paying jobs and international corporations then Wal-Mart would be a better target. All their locations are owned and operated by the corporation. Maybe you'd like to get rid of them too? They only hire 90,000 Canadians, lease 400+ buildings from Canadian landlords, contribute CPP, EI, and corporate taxes to Canada, pay municipal taxes to lower levels of government, pay Canadian utilities to run said locations, pay hundreds of Canadian truck drivers to drive several thousand Canadian-registered trucks to and from millions of square feet of Canadian distribution centres... not to mention stock their shelves with god knows how many products procured from Canadian companies. But yeah, I guess the profits are transferred out.
JTR
Well-known member
Don't forget to add that both McDonald's and Walmart have those advancement opportunity programs that I was talking about earlier, offering any employee with a shred of ambition, a path to better wages and benefits. All they have to do is reach for it. We might aswell add another minimum wage slave driving American corp to the mix with Tim Horton's, and for good measure a Canadian firm like Canadian Tire Corp, both of whom ALSO have great advancement op programs. Oh damn what am I doing, bringing the talk back on topic, how stupid of me.Ugh. You're so simplistic. McDonalds, along with almost every other fast food chain, is franchised. When you buy your coffee and muffin in the morning, you're spending your money in a business wholly owned and operated by fellow Canadians. They don't "transfer their profits" anywhere. They pay a fee (rightly so) and pocket the rest. That's how the business works. You're using a terrible example for your tirade.
If you wanna rant about low paying jobs and international corporations then Wal-Mart would be a better target. All their locations are owned and operated by the corporation. Maybe you'd like to get rid of them too? They only hire 90,000 Canadians, lease 400+ buildings from Canadian landlords, contribute CPP, EI, and corporate taxes to Canada, pay municipal taxes to lower levels of government, pay Canadian utilities to run said locations, pay hundreds of Canadian truck drivers to drive several thousand Canadian-registered trucks to and from millions of square feet of Canadian distribution centres... not to mention stock their shelves with god knows how many products procured from Canadian companies. But yeah, I guess the profits are transferred out.
I have never held a minimum wage job. Why? Because I didn't have to. Always found something that paid more, eventually settling on a job that I've made into my career.
I'm very tired of this argument that people need to make a living. Minimum wage jobs are unskilled, entry level positions meant for students, newcomers or as a temporary solution. You are not supposed work for minimum wage for 30 years of your life and then whine about it. I can't even conceive what kind of flawed mentality these people have.
I'm very tired of this argument that people need to make a living. Minimum wage jobs are unskilled, entry level positions meant for students, newcomers or as a temporary solution. You are not supposed work for minimum wage for 30 years of your life and then whine about it. I can't even conceive what kind of flawed mentality these people have.
I'm not an economist like others on this board but it sure "seems" to me like those businesses paying minimum today or historically are saying we would pay even less if the law allowed it. Think about what that means. If they paid 50cents or a buck over minimum and the employee accepts it that's on them. But if the company pays the least they're allowed under law either it's a **** business not even worth being in or the company is greedy. Because what are the odds the the minimum wage is the exact right value the worker provides?
Better solution is to raise the personal deduction to 25K from 11.xK. Basically a ~$2 an hour (fed tax, more if prov is included) take home raise for all low income earners without any increase in payrolls. Roll it back at one of the higher tax brackets to offset the cost. Increase GST back a point or two for the rest. This solution is a federal one, that provinces should also participate in.
Big plus for GDP as lower income brackets spend and don't hoard cash. Ethically and efficiently speaking we currently charge income tax to people living below the "poverty" line then we spend tax payers dollars on helping them... Why not spend less and just not charge them taxes?
Floated this before in other threads. Raising minwage is not the answer here, need a country wide taxation solution, at least in the short term.
Big plus for GDP as lower income brackets spend and don't hoard cash. Ethically and efficiently speaking we currently charge income tax to people living below the "poverty" line then we spend tax payers dollars on helping them... Why not spend less and just not charge them taxes?
Floated this before in other threads. Raising minwage is not the answer here, need a country wide taxation solution, at least in the short term.
Snobike Mike
Banned
Your solution simplistically still takes more money from those that work harder and gives it to those that work less. If you want a living wage, go and find one, earn one, or create one. But the last thing an economy needs is the government performing income redistribution.
The minimum wage is high enough that some companies are automating those workers out. All that tells me is that those minimum wage workers are indeed worth LESS than what they're being paid, and the quality of their work is garbage.
Sometimes reality sucks. Work harder, do a better job.
Roadghost
Well-known member
This is only partially true. Only some McDonald's are franchised. Franchisees pay a large percentage of their profit to the corp., they are almost employees, barely business owners. McDonald's corporate head office is in the United States. It is listed on the NY stock exchange. The U.S. is where the profits go. Although there are some benefits, foreign fast food companies are of little overall value to our economy. Canadian owned food giant Cara (Harveys, Kelseys, Montanas, etc.) is a good example of a chain that does add value to our economy.
If you wanna rant about low paying jobs and international corporations then Wal-Mart would be a better target. All their locations are owned and operated by the corporation. Maybe you'd like to get rid of them too? They only hire 90,000 Canadians, lease 400+ buildings from Canadian landlords, contribute CPP, EI, and corporate taxes to Canada, pay municipal taxes to lower levels of government, pay Canadian utilities to run said locations, pay hundreds of Canadian truck drivers to drive several thousand Canadian-registered trucks to and from millions of square feet of Canadian distribution centres... not to mention stock their shelves with god knows how many products procured from Canadian companies. But yeah, I guess the profits are transferred out.
So who did we have before Wal-Mart? They aren't doing anything any other retailer couldn't. Zellers, once a profitable company, bought and destroyed by foreign corp. Target, was also a big employer with higher paying jobs and better benefits. How did Wal-Mart change the landscape and become beneficial? We don't need any more trucking jobs there's already a shortage of drivers in that industry and Wal-Mart doesn't hire them they contract at horrible pay rates. Besides bringing in a lot of Chinese product and overcharging for it I don't see any benefit from them either. Speaking of no benefits, let's talk about Amazon and eBay, who also contribute nothing to the Canadian economy and will surely be Wal-Mart's demise. The idea that these foreign retailers or fast food corps. are a better benefit to Canada than Canadian ones is a fantasy. On paper, your argument just doesn't hold water. One way to get more money out of them is to raise the minimum wage. I promise you they won't leave because of it, ever.
