Exactly. The system sucks.
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May 18 accident near danforth ave SB broadview ave
- Thread starter Jimsun
- Start date
Exactly. The system sucks.
I can't really see the accident in the video, but from comments and the situation it's pretty clear what happened.
As an armchair observer, the rider definitely ****** up as it appears to ME that he's going too fast on wet pavement, with rail tracks, and is trying to accelerate to beat the cars in the left lane prior to reaching the parked cars on the right. Too fast for conditions IMO and not anticipating what could've happened. Likely he could've slowed down once past the intersection, but can't tell the speed regardless. He may have kept accelerating, or speeding, or slowed down...I can't tell.
The driver REALLY (and definitely) ****** up because of the u-turn, however, I can't tell whether there was a turn signal turned on or not and the rider just assumed the driver could see them and is trying to enter the lane. If they did the rider would've most likely hit the back bumper or left side of the car and be pushed out into oncoming traffic lane.
If there's no contact, it's unfortunate that the rider will be dinged with some charge and there's video of him accelerating hard from the red light. If there was contact, it could have ended up much worse for the rider. Which do you choose? Personally I would've probably called the driver a f'ing idiot, picked the bike up and ride away if possible so as not to have the cops involved. Now that the cops are involved, the insurance is involved, and as there's no contact, and the rider may not have a dash camera to prove the car pulled out too close to make a safe stop...tough for the rider.
For now he rider will have a story of how he had to 'lay her down' to avoid a stupid cager. Which sucks because there's video of him punching the driver's window in anger (fully understandable of course, although not justifiable IMO).
As an armchair observer, the rider definitely ****** up as it appears to ME that he's going too fast on wet pavement, with rail tracks, and is trying to accelerate to beat the cars in the left lane prior to reaching the parked cars on the right. Too fast for conditions IMO and not anticipating what could've happened. Likely he could've slowed down once past the intersection, but can't tell the speed regardless. He may have kept accelerating, or speeding, or slowed down...I can't tell.
The driver REALLY (and definitely) ****** up because of the u-turn, however, I can't tell whether there was a turn signal turned on or not and the rider just assumed the driver could see them and is trying to enter the lane. If they did the rider would've most likely hit the back bumper or left side of the car and be pushed out into oncoming traffic lane.
If there's no contact, it's unfortunate that the rider will be dinged with some charge and there's video of him accelerating hard from the red light. If there was contact, it could have ended up much worse for the rider. Which do you choose? Personally I would've probably called the driver a f'ing idiot, picked the bike up and ride away if possible so as not to have the cops involved. Now that the cops are involved, the insurance is involved, and as there's no contact, and the rider may not have a dash camera to prove the car pulled out too close to make a safe stop...tough for the rider.
For now he rider will have a story of how he had to 'lay her down' to avoid a stupid cager. Which sucks because there's video of him punching the driver's window in anger (fully understandable of course, although not justifiable IMO).
TK4
Well-known member
After watching the video several times, here's my take. Buddy lit it up off the lights at the same time the cager was making the U-turn. He panicked, dropped it on the wet tracks and freaked out at the driver of the car. Who's at fault ? Both of them IMO, it comes down to who had the last opportunity to avoid what happened, and to me it looks like the rider.
TK4
Well-known member
Unless its raining and there are wet tracks - then take your time...
Judging by the guy's reaction, I highly doubt it. I always tell my wife not to ever get out of the car if she has an incident and the other driver is raging. Stay in the car, call the cops and wait it out. Especially with kids in the car.
KenC
Well-known member
I'm not against lane filtering and I know it doesn't necessarily apply at this intersection (I know it's "two lanes open" on the southbound just north of Danforth), but in the city, being the 1st to break away from the lights can go bad so quick, then add rain, tracks, and not to mention you have to get over to the centre lane because of park cars.
Sometimes a cager in front is safer.
Sometimes a cager in front is safer.
I thought it was Nice catch? But no, if you want a two word quote it would be "insufficient training" or "insufficient responsibility".
From the video, it didn't look to me like the bike and car were that close.
If there's a better video that shows them being on top of each other, or actual contact, then I'll change my opinion.
The first question I ask is: Could the motorcyclist have stopped without crashing if he had been in a car.
If there was no contact, with the bike sliding on its side, then the answer is yes. If that's the case, then the motorcyclist has to do some work.
The Danforth right by a subway station is going to have dozens, if not hundreds, of cars doing u-turns and other crazy things, all day long.
Even in between stations, there will be cars trying to use the mini inside lane to pass.
If the rider is not going to continuously crash when he rides through there, then he needs to make some changes to his riding habits.
Doing u turns and crazy things is fine, but you need to LOOK.
mistersouthpaw
Well-known member
I had some streetcar tracks cause me to wipeout years ago, was coming east on college and torrential downpour started out of no where and some dbag in a bmw comes racing up the right lane and quickly changes into my lane and doesn’t see me and I went into the tracks to avoid him and ended up wiping out. ******* stopped to look for a second and then took off
ScorpionT16
Well-known member
I used to commute downtown and know those side car tracks all to well, esp the concrete part, so slippery. First bike never had ABS and i'd skid/slide a few feet sometimes and just ride it out with a smile (dirt bike experience), then I got a bike with ABS, and huge difference. I don't care what people say about ABS not being for real riders and all, a bike with ABS will stop a lot quicker and safer than one without. That said, the tracks/concrete were always slippery, dry or wet.
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Paging @Low rider
I agree with you 100%, but I never totally expect it.
I've seen too many people who don't look, or look at you, decide that because you saw them look, they can go, or other variations.
We have to take more responsibility for our own safety, not less.
We're the ones who'll end up in the body bag, while the car driver explains how it was our fault.
That's all I'm saying man.
Guy who hit me just kept shrugging off responsibility 'i didn't see you, I didn't see you, I'm not at fault.' well no **** Sherlock, if you had seen me I'd still have an Fz09. Thankfully I saw him, I was prepared for such an event and that's the sole reason I didn't get launched over his hood into the stratosphere.
You obviously know I don't agree with this statement. You also know I hate ABS. If the rider had ABS, he may have rolled along right into that cager with his brakes pinned as hard as possible. ABS scares the hell out of me on a motorcycle.
Sometimes you need to kick out the rear wheel in order to get around an object. ABS will not let you do this.
I don't know how many of you have ridden this section of road when the road is wet.
I have ridden it many times, wet and dry.
I understand why the biker wanted to get ahead of the cars.
Even in dry situations the tracks veer off to different streets. If you are behind a car, you don't know exactly when that is happening. Even in the dry it can upset your ride.
I always wanted to be without a car in front of me , every time I rode that stretch of road.
Isnt that called 'following too closely'?
ScorpionT16
Well-known member
Just because you hate it, doesn't mean you should avoid hard facts and physics, or deter others. ABS still requires common sense to brake and ride, it just prevents the wheel from locking and sliding, stopping a lot quicker, a whole lot quicker. If your kicking out rear wheels to get around objects on the street, ABS isn't your problem, it's speed. Off-road is a different ball game. Simply because you're in the 5%, doesn't meant its 95% in effective.
Read your facts and research before assuming.
"
Results: ABS was associated with a 31 percent reduction in the rate of fatal motorcycle crashes
per 10,000 registered vehicle years. The 95 percent confidence interval for this effectiveness estimate
was (9 percent, 48 percent). Both the updated estimate and its confidence interval were within the
confidence interval of the 2003-08 estimate due largely to the precision afforded by larger sample size.
Conclusions: Further evidence shows that ABS is highly effective in preventing fatal motorcycle
crashes."
Nice statistics.
We should still be left the choice to buy a motorcycle with or without ABS.
It should be my decision.
Or, if we cannot have that option, a switch to turn it off.
In wet conditions I may actually turn ABS on, probably not, but there may be wet show conditions that may compel me to turn it on.
Roadghost
Well-known member
So the problem with this is the sport bike rider is automatically at fault because he was speeding.
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