Not really. It's just the starting point for the negotiations between the crown and his attorneys.
Manslaughter for Passenger Fatality..
- Thread starter invictus43
- Start date
Not really. It's just the starting point for the negotiations between the crown and his attorneys.
Pushing someone off of a moving vehicle with traffic following doesnt suggest an intent to kill?
And where did the idea he intentionally pushed her off come from anyways?
As do I.
Bit people are ****ed these days. Other people don't exist in so many peoples self centered world.
ohh man, this just made me laught
but the other charges don't nessasary have to have intent (otherwise it would be straight murder, wouldn't it)
Doesn't "dangerous driving causing death" just mean you weren't intending someone to die, but your actions could cause death... or something along those lines?
Yes, what it comes down to is degrees and what the crown can get to stick. "Dangerous driving causing death" in terms of sentencing is no different from Manslaughter you can get up to 14 years or even Life (dont quote me on the last part).
Not even close.
Murder
A murder occurs when a person intentionally, by a wilful act or omission, causes the death of another human being, or means to cause bodily harm that the person knows is likely to cause death.
First degree murder occurs when:
(a) it is planned and deliberate; or
(b) the victim is a person employed and acting in the course of his/her work for the preservation and maintenance of the public peace (e.g. police officer, correctional worker); or
(c) the death is caused by a person committing or attempting to commit certain serious offences (e.g. treason, kidnapping, hijacking, sexual assault, robbery and arson).
Second degree murder is all murder that is not first degree.(b) the victim is a person employed and acting in the course of his/her work for the preservation and maintenance of the public peace (e.g. police officer, correctional worker); or
(c) the death is caused by a person committing or attempting to commit certain serious offences (e.g. treason, kidnapping, hijacking, sexual assault, robbery and arson).
Manslaughter
Manslaughter is culpable homicide that is not murder or infanticide. Culpable usually means that the death occurred while in the commission of another criminal offence.
Unless he planned in advance to deliberately shove her off the bike to kill her, it's not 1st degree murder.
Unless he deliberately (but without advance planning) pushed her off the bike in hopes of killing her, it's not 2nd degree murder.
If she accidentally fell off the bike as a direct result of him trying to flee police, a manslaughter charge would fit because it happened while he was engaged in egregious criminal conduct (flight from police).
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I can't imagine a scenario where someone is deliberately pushed off a bike at speed and the possibility of death is NOT on their mind. In my opinion, if someone is pushed off a bike at speed, then 2nd degree murder should be warranted.
Are you thick? Thats exactly what I said. Murder is planned or deliberate, while manslaughter is death occurring in commission of another criminal offence.
No, that's not what you said. You said:
First degree murder? Are you dense?
Deliberately shoving someone off the back of a motorcycle may or may not show intent to kill. Even if it was a deliberate attempt to kill, it still is not first degree murder unless the event was premeditated in advance.
Do you really think that he planned to get in a chase and planned to shove her off onto the highway? If not, it's not first degree murder.
Clearly he didn't plan on the police chase. With limited exceptions, intentional spontaneous but unplanned killings do not fit into the definition of first degree murder. The apparent circumstances of this death do not fit the definition of first degree murder, nor do they readily fit the definition of second degree murder unless there are witnesses available who can state that they saw the passenger being deliberately shoved off the bike.
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Ok so thanks for admitting you are thick. Where in the definition you posted does it state how far ahead the planning has to be?
Planning to throw her off the back can happen at any time, it can happen when he got into the chase. The thought process could have been "Cops are chasing me, time to get this heifer of the back and save some weight." It doesnt say how far ahead the planning has to be. Thats what the courts, crown, witnesses are there for.
The full definition of first degree is in the Canadian Criminal Code, sections 231.(2) through 231.(6). Go read it and unthicken yourself.
That would still be a spontaneous act perpetrated in the heat of the moment. At best, even if it can be proven to be deliberate, it would be second degree murder.
Its word for word what you copy and pasted, nowhere does it give a time line.
Why because you say so? Please, try that presumption of fact crap with someone else.
No, it's nothing of the sort. You either failed to look it up, or you are illiterate and unable to look it up, or you are functionally illiterate and unable to understand what the criminal statutes say.
My opinion is based on facts, and not on your fanciful but mistaken ideas of what constitutes first degree murder.
Classification of murder
231. (1) Murder is first degree murder or second degree murder.
Planned and deliberate murder
(2) Murder is first degree murder when it is planned and deliberate.
Contracted murder
Just remember I can have you killed for less than I owe you.
(3) Without limiting the generality of subsection (2), murder is planned and deliberate when it is committed pursuant to an arrangement under which money or anything of value passes or is intended to pass from one person to another, or is promised by one person to another, as consideration for that other's causing or assisting in causing the death of anyone or counselling another person to do any act causing or assisting in causing that death.
Murder of peace officer, etc.
(4) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of any person, murder is first degree murder when the victim is
(a) a police officer, police constable, constable, sheriff, deputy sheriff, sheriff's officer or other person employed for the preservation and maintenance of the public peace, acting in the course of his duties;
(b) a warden, deputy warden, instructor, keeper, jailer, guard or other officer or a permanent employee of a prison, acting in the course of his duties; or
(c) a person working in a prison with the permission of the prison authorities and acting in the course of his work therein.
Hijacking, sexual assault or kidnapping
Don"t kill anyone while hijacking a plane, raping someone, kidnapping someone, or taking any hostages.
(5) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of any person, murder is first degree murder in respect of a person when the death is caused by that person while committing or attempting to commit an offence under one of the following sections:
(a) section 76 (hijacking an aircraft);
(b) section 271 (sexual assault);
(c) section 272 (sexual assault with a weapon, threats to a third party or causing bodily harm);
(d) section 273 (aggravated sexual assault);
(e) section 279 (kidnapping and forcible confinement); or
(f) section 279.1 (hostage taking).
Criminal harassment
(6) Irrespective of whether a murder is planned and deliberate on the part of any person, murder is first degree murder when the death is caused by that person while committing or attempting to commit an offence under section 264 and the person committing that offence intended to cause the person murdered to fear for the safety of the person murdered or the safety of anyone known to the person murdered.
Straight from the Criminal Code of Canada.
Nothing you post is ever based on facts. You purport the crap you spew as fact, but it just isnt. As is evident here. You have no clue what your rambling on about in this thread.
As is evident here? ********.
In criminal law, what is fact is what is provable to the satisfaction of the court.
Now, bright boy, short of a diary entry or confession, tell us how you would manage to prove that a rider concocted a plan in advance of a ride that if he were to be chased by police that he would deliberately push off his passenger not only with intent to lighten his load, but also with a specific and deliberate intent to kill her. If you can prove that, then there might be a case for first degree murder. Good luck on that one.
This one killed someone? Really? What ever happened to the presumption of innocence and right to a fair trial in this case like you insisted everyone afford your hero Michael "we will crush your cars" Bryant? You have the consistency of a warm milkshake, and your "opinions", which seem to change with the wind, are not to be taken seriously.
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Comrade Yeti
Member
No offence... but if you are going to call out Turbo for assuming this guy did it, attack every other board member who hopes he fries, book thrown at him, etc. too.
Hell attack me too, I hope he gets the full sentencing...
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He'll get his due process just as Bryant did. Unlike Bryant and his attacker's previous history of attacking other motorists, there doesn't seem to be any mitigating circumstances that might help paint the rider in a better light. But he'll still get his due process.
