Did you sell it if you never got payment?
|
|
|
Man scammed by a fake certified cheque, lost polaris slingshot
- Thread starter Norcorider
- Start date
Did you sell it if you never got payment?
Probably not? The deal was money for object. They never paid you. Now, if they sent a legitimate deposit, you may be screwed. They gave you some consideration just not as much as you expected. That is a much greyer area than if you were never provided anything. Zero payment means contract is invalid and you own the object.
Now, independent of the above, your insurance policy says they don't pay even if it was stolen this way and you received no money. You willingly handed over the vehicle so the loss is yours.
Last edited:
Definitely a possibility that the unit is ‘stolen’ but the owner wants a payout.
Pretty sure they, the issuing bank, can refuse to cash it for YOU. If you have the buyer with you, they'll cash it for them, and then let them hand you the cash but having no previous relationship with YOU they can refuse to hand you cash. All they have to say is "Question of identity" and they can hold the check for a week... or more.
Your bank can do the same thing.
This ain't 'Merica
I once had a check held for almost 6 months. My idiot brother gave me a third party check, and, not to be noticed till later, didn't countersign it. I go to the bank, blah blah blah and please deposit this check. The nice lady looks at the check (I am a LONG time customer at this bank, everyone knows me) and says "I didn't know you were a police officer". HE GAVE ME HIS PAY CHECK. It was a Metro Toronto Police paycheck.Then the nice teller slides the check back at me to counter sign... DOH... Give me a sec... I call my idiot brother. He tells me to sign his name. I say I CAN'T DO THAT, THAT"S FRAUD (loud enough the teller heard me... OOPS) He says "There is NO fraud until there is an accusation of fraud". I sign HIS name on the check, push it back to the teller... she didn't know what to do and says "I can't take this". I said "THERE IS NO FRAUD UNTIL THERE IS AN ACCUSATION OF FRAUD".
They held the check for almost six months, we would joke about it when I went to the bank. We talked of having a party when it cleared. (I'm pretty sure, by law, I could have countersigned the check with MY signature... but there would be no way I could convince the teller of that... and the bank would take forever to clear it... forever... like almost six months forever....).
Funny thing, I had a current account at the same bank, and they would let me deposit anything in THAT account. A third party, out of province check written on toilet paper with lip stick? SURE.
Everybody at my bank knows my name... we have history. I gots lots o "bank" stories. I've had an account at the same branch since the early '80s... betcha it's been 15 years since I've been through their doors, I hear they've moved. Internet banking is great. The local bank tried for years to get me to transfer my accounts up here. What's the point?
Take them to a bank with the purchaser in tow to verify. If the person doesn't like it..... next.
I guess you could do the same with certified cheque etc.
It’s all gotten quite complicated, if you go to your bank with over 10k in cash to deposit you will have to have an explanation of where it came from or they won’t take it . Certified cheques and bank drafts can be scammed. E trans have limits , as a regular citizen its hard to get things done .
At work we have lots of customers set us up as a payee on there banking , they can then transfer us any amount , but that works for a business not a one off sale.
I sold a boat recently for 32k , took a 1,500 deposit via e trans and a personal check for the balance . At least I knew the same guy was issuing both sets of funds , saw his tow vehicle and talked about his cottage and lake he was on , took a photo of his drivers licence and all the names matched . Due diligence is easy , when you aren’t working with a criminal .
Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
At work we have lots of customers set us up as a payee on there banking , they can then transfer us any amount , but that works for a business not a one off sale.
I sold a boat recently for 32k , took a 1,500 deposit via e trans and a personal check for the balance . At least I knew the same guy was issuing both sets of funds , saw his tow vehicle and talked about his cottage and lake he was on , took a photo of his drivers licence and all the names matched . Due diligence is easy , when you aren’t working with a criminal .
Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
John4852
Well-known member
Only a fool would take such an obviously fraudulent cheque from someone.
The fraud here isn't the unpaid vehicle if it ever existed-it is two guys trying to get the bank to pay for a vehicle they sold months ago who are planning on splitting the windfall they scam from the bank between them.
Two scammers here and the bank as the attempted victim.
The fraud here isn't the unpaid vehicle if it ever existed-it is two guys trying to get the bank to pay for a vehicle they sold months ago who are planning on splitting the windfall they scam from the bank between them.
Two scammers here and the bank as the attempted victim.
Would be safe to assume there would be millions of fools then.
Some kid seller there first car will not be a counterfeit expert neither would an old lady seller her dead husbands car etc. People who prey on people for a living are experts in the craft, most law abiding citizens are ignorant to the level of complexity of these scams.
All that being said, your theory of both parties being "in" on this scam makes sense, what doesn't make sense is reporting it to the news and eventually the police.
Relax
Well-known member
Well, the bill of sale clearly should state that the vehicle was sold for a certain amount of money. If that amount was not paid, then the transaction is voided.
That said, getting a replacement ownership is useless without the vehicle. And now that I think of it, what fraudster is going to transfer ownership of a "stolen" vehicle into their own name. I'd be worried about curbsiders, though.
Last edited:
John4852
Well-known member
It just escalated to that point. There could be lots of reasons why.
For instance: the bank refuses to pay the windfall so the "victim," takes it to the news to shame the bank into paying.
Remember the police don't know who wrote the fake cheque, only the guy cashing it and going to the press about it does.
Or the police published this to warn scammers that this level of stupidity never works.
I happen to have 2 bank drafts on hand as I deposited funds via eDeposit. They were issued to me by 2 different banks I do business with, so obviously no concern on my part as to their legitimacy.
There's nothing special about the cheque format or how they are completed. Format of each cheque is slightly different. One says CANADIAN DOLLAR DRAFT and the other BANK DRAFT. There is no embossing. There are two authorizing signatures on one cheque and no signature on the other one.
I've never sold anything privately for more than a few thousand dollars and it was a cash deal. I think I'd insist on meeting a buyer at their bank so I could witness the preparation of a bank draft or do a transfer. Maybe best option, if buyer and seller had accounts with same bank, is cash withdrawal to buyer, hand over to seller, then immediate deposit by seller to his account. I don't think there is any way that transaction could ever be reversed by the bank.
There's nothing special about the cheque format or how they are completed. Format of each cheque is slightly different. One says CANADIAN DOLLAR DRAFT and the other BANK DRAFT. There is no embossing. There are two authorizing signatures on one cheque and no signature on the other one.
I've never sold anything privately for more than a few thousand dollars and it was a cash deal. I think I'd insist on meeting a buyer at their bank so I could witness the preparation of a bank draft or do a transfer. Maybe best option, if buyer and seller had accounts with same bank, is cash withdrawal to buyer, hand over to seller, then immediate deposit by seller to his account. I don't think there is any way that transaction could ever be reversed by the bank.
The police would possibly see it as two separate events. The sale and the fraudulent check.
Failing to pay for something would be passed off as a civil matter. Call a lawyer.
They will put the fraudulent check charge on their to do list.
I used to deal with a particular property manager on a regular basis and would trust him with my house keys. My wife was familiar with his name from conversations about where I worked.
One day she came home from work at an insurance company where she matched checks to claim settlements. She had to reject a fake $10,000 check the PM had deposited to his bank account.
I didn’t want to pry but suspect he had something to sell and it wasn’t moving. Then a buyer came along and offered full price but there was a catch. He was owed $10 K by an insurance company by his bank had an account issue and would seize any money that went into his account.
The buyer said he would have the check issued to the seller but since it was well above the price of the merchandise could he have the balance in cash.
The buyer would come for the item when the check cleared but would appreciate the cash now.
He never wanted the item. Thanks sucker.
Insurance companies will not issue a check to anyone but the policy holder. If they are dead the check goes to their estate and it becomes the executors problem.
I have a check from an insurance deal on my desk made out to the company I closed a few years ago. I can’t cash the check as it’s not in my name and the insurance company won’t change the name.
One day she came home from work at an insurance company where she matched checks to claim settlements. She had to reject a fake $10,000 check the PM had deposited to his bank account.
I didn’t want to pry but suspect he had something to sell and it wasn’t moving. Then a buyer came along and offered full price but there was a catch. He was owed $10 K by an insurance company by his bank had an account issue and would seize any money that went into his account.
The buyer said he would have the check issued to the seller but since it was well above the price of the merchandise could he have the balance in cash.
The buyer would come for the item when the check cleared but would appreciate the cash now.
He never wanted the item. Thanks sucker.
Insurance companies will not issue a check to anyone but the policy holder. If they are dead the check goes to their estate and it becomes the executors problem.
I have a check from an insurance deal on my desk made out to the company I closed a few years ago. I can’t cash the check as it’s not in my name and the insurance company won’t change the name.
Last edited:
Mikedezo44
Well-known member
Had a very strange encounter last week. Have a 40k vehicle posted for sale, received message from someone interested to come view. I said sure.
I opened the garage and it was a 16 year old kid standing there with a backpack on. I immediately knew it was going to be a waste of time. Could tell it must've been his first time looking at a car. Spent 2 mins looking at it, asking a few questions. I asked how he got here? A bus he said. Then said he would talk to his dad, he walked down the street and then another kid rounded the corner whom he met up with.
Shortly later I get a text from his "dad" Will you accept 35k? I can send him over with a cheque right now. I said no I really don't care if I sell or not, $39,000 its yours. He immediately says no problem and agrees. Will send kid over now. I said is it a certified bank draft? No but I can send you a photo of my license so you have my address. We went back and forth saying I need him to come meet me at the bank (I knew it was a scam, just kind of playing with them) etc etc, then I said the bank is closed, need to wait until it's open. Unless "dad" was multi-millionaire highly doubtful he would just write a cheque for that kind of money sight unseen, not asking about a safety, or a single thing about the vehicle.
Didn't hear from him the next day. I sent a text at 5pm "Thanks a lot for wasting my time. You should really do more research on who you're trying to scam, I have you on video and your fingerprints and will be more than willing to give them to my brother who is a detective at Peel police. Only an idiot would accept a personal cheque these days"
He then sent about 10 texts claiming his innocence, including "you can't accuse me of scamming you just because I'm_______ (insert skin color)
All I replied was, "I have everything I need, have a nice day"
Wanted to scare him off so he never came back around, I think maybe they were just looking for an easy vehicle, hoping I'd leave it running while he was looking at it so he could drive off.
I opened the garage and it was a 16 year old kid standing there with a backpack on. I immediately knew it was going to be a waste of time. Could tell it must've been his first time looking at a car. Spent 2 mins looking at it, asking a few questions. I asked how he got here? A bus he said. Then said he would talk to his dad, he walked down the street and then another kid rounded the corner whom he met up with.
Shortly later I get a text from his "dad" Will you accept 35k? I can send him over with a cheque right now. I said no I really don't care if I sell or not, $39,000 its yours. He immediately says no problem and agrees. Will send kid over now. I said is it a certified bank draft? No but I can send you a photo of my license so you have my address. We went back and forth saying I need him to come meet me at the bank (I knew it was a scam, just kind of playing with them) etc etc, then I said the bank is closed, need to wait until it's open. Unless "dad" was multi-millionaire highly doubtful he would just write a cheque for that kind of money sight unseen, not asking about a safety, or a single thing about the vehicle.
Didn't hear from him the next day. I sent a text at 5pm "Thanks a lot for wasting my time. You should really do more research on who you're trying to scam, I have you on video and your fingerprints and will be more than willing to give them to my brother who is a detective at Peel police. Only an idiot would accept a personal cheque these days"
He then sent about 10 texts claiming his innocence, including "you can't accuse me of scamming you just because I'm_______ (insert skin color)
All I replied was, "I have everything I need, have a nice day"
Wanted to scare him off so he never came back around, I think maybe they were just looking for an easy vehicle, hoping I'd leave it running while he was looking at it so he could drive off.
I don't open the garage for strangers. Item for sale is outside before they arrive (or even better, if it is easy to transport like a vehicle, I meet them somewhere away from home).
They were waiting for you to turn your back and would steal it most likely.
Trying to sell the Volt privately was a hot mess. Time wasters, scammers, and frustration.
I tried all the online places, and then the AutoTrader ‘buy my car option’ and I ended up 1k less than what I was going to take to a dealer 10min away.
|
|
|
|
|