Man charged for not giving phone password

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I just see it as a breach of privacy though... not as bad as the fappening as they dont post it online...but still... what if a celebrity has her phone unlocked and has naked pics of her. Border agent can just go through it for "security concerns" and abuse his power.

But as caboose mentionned, how do they know which phones/devices they can and cannot access...
 
Lightcycle said:
You guys are missing the point. The man was charged because he didn't provide access to the contents of the device when requested.

Encrypt all you want, the crux of this case is the obligation to provide access, not how well you protect it.
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True i was just commenting that your devices should be encrypted anyway.
 
LePhillou said:
I just see it as a breach of privacy though... not as bad as the fappening as they dont post it online...but still... what if a celebrity has her phone unlocked and has naked pics of her. Border agent can just go through it for "security concerns" and abuse his power.

But as caboose mentionned, how do they know which phones/devices they can and cannot access...
Click to expand...

This is what concerns me the most.

There is content on my phone and laptop that federal regulations prohibit being shown to people without proper clearance.

My employer and I could both be fined and/or charged if I breach those regulations. It's a catch 22 and in this case I will side with well documented federal CG/ITAR regulations. Not some CBSA that may or may not know what the hell they're doing.

One thing to note is that if I was put in this position I would request to see the legislation that grants them access. Prove it to me that I must unlock my phone/laptop for them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
LePhillou said:
I just see it as a breach of privacy though... not as bad as the fappening as they dont post it online...but still... what if a celebrity has her phone unlocked and has naked pics of her. Border agent can just go through it for "security concerns" and abuse his power.

But as caboose mentionned, how do they know which phones/devices they can and cannot access...
Click to expand...


what does it matter if it is a celebrity? John Q Pubic should be extended the sameprotection shouldn’t they? What is tostop guards from pulling the phone or computer of any hot chick, just to dosome fishing to see if she has any “selfies” that they can take a peek at.
 
Lightcycle said:
What is going to be in dispute is the difference between "examining" (which has always meant a physical examination) and "assisting the officers into logging into your devices" (which could result in access to networked resources in the cloud via your smartphone).

If you took it down the slippery slope, where does it stop? First a password to unlock the phone, then fire up a banking app - "We'll need that password too". Corporate VPN on your laptop? "Hand over the password please"...

There's no way this will get held up in court.
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It already has been.

[15] Exceptional storage capacity is what makes a computer such a potentially dangerous reservoir of the most pernicious forms of child pornography, viz videos and photographs. I reject the contention that a search of a computer is tantamount to a psychological strip or cavitysearch. In the context of a search at the border, the suggestion that a computer ought to be viewed an extension of one’s memory is pure hyperbole. Moreover, the suggestion that searching a computer being imported into the country would cause fear and apprehension in a reasonable person is, to my mind, incredible and untenable. The kind of computer search conducted here required no special equipment and no special expertise. There is no suggestion that after such a search is performed there will be any damage or change to the condition or content of the computer.

[16] Moreover, any search at the border of one’s pockets, carryall or baggage could result in all manner of personal and private items being surveyed or touched by a stranger and resulting in some level of embarrassment or a feeling of discomfort. I see no intrinsic difference between the effects of the computer search at issue here and the intrusiveness or the embarrassment attendant upon a search of a wallet or purse or the requirement to turn out of one’s pockets or to be subjected to a detailed examination of the contents of one’s suitcase. In my view the search of Mr. Leask’s computer was a routine border search that did not infringe his s. 8 Charter rights. This conclusion flows directly from Simmons and R. v. Jones, 2006 CanLII 28086 (ON CA), [2006] O.J. No. 3315 (C.A.):​

http://www.canlii.org/en/on/oncj/do...cc2VhcmNoIC9wIGNvbXB1dGVyIC9wIGJvcmRlcgAAAAAB
 
griff2 said:
It already has been.
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I'd argue that it hasn't.

That case is for content in direct storage on the device. It is like having photos in a manilla folder that you've got in a briefcase that you're carrying into the country.

Today's smartphones are more than storage, they are access gateways to network-connected resources, shared drives, iClouds, Dropboxes, corporate VPNs, etc. Where is the line between trying to prohibit contraband or harmful material entering into the country if the material "uncovered" via the smartphone is physically outside the device, perhaps even outside the country or continent?

The laws are outdated and need to take into account how networked technology is being used today.
 
Simple. Before you take your trip. Do a full back up of your device. Then wipe it, when it boots up, it just goes to stock OS and settings and laugh as there will be nothing for them to look at on it and tell them you just bought the phone new and are still setting it up. When you cross the border, reload your device again with the backed up copy (using a PC or laptop) and carry on like nothing happened. Easily done on my BlackBerry, and I don't see why it wouldn't work on other OS's.

Sent from my Passport
 
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SunnY S said:
Simple. Back up your device. Then wipe it and restore it to stock with basic function and laugh as there will be nothing for them to look at on it and tell them you just bought the phone new. When you cross the border, reload your device again with the backed up copy (using a PC or laptop) and carry on like nothing happened. Easily done on my BlackBerry, and I don't see why it wouldn't work on other OS's.

Sent from my Passport
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You need to do a lengthy security wipe if you want this to make a difference.

Their hardware takes an image of your device which will contain deleted data unless its PROPERLY overwritten.

The only way around is strong encryption backed by an equally strong password which they can't lawfully compel you to give them. Period.
 
SunnY S said:
Simple. Back up your device. Then wipe it and restore it to stock with basic function and laugh as there will be nothing for them to look at on it and tell them you just bought the phone new. When you cross the border, reload your device again with the backed up copy (using a PC or laptop) and carry on like nothing happened. Easily done on my BlackBerry, and I don't see why it wouldn't work on other OS's.

Sent from my Passport
Click to expand...
Shameless plug for BB?
 
Lightcycle said:
I'd argue that it hasn't.

That case is for content in direct storage on the device. It is like having photos in a manilla folder that you've got in a briefcase that you're carrying into the country.

Today's smartphones are more than storage, they are access gateways to network-connected resources, shared drives, iClouds, Dropboxes, corporate VPNs, etc. Where is the line between trying to prohibit contraband or harmful material entering into the country if the material "uncovered" via the smartphone is physically outside the device, perhaps even outside the country or continent?

The laws are outdated and need to take into account how networked technology is being used today.
Click to expand...

Point remains that the password is still necessary for access to the stored memory on the device even if that password may also grant access to cloud or other remote storage, and the Courts have ruled that border control can access that stored memory. It's up to the individual how much remote storage they wish to have accessible from their mobile devices, and to keep in mind potential border search ramifications that may result from that.
 
mmmnaked said:
You need to do a lengthy security wipe if you want this to make a difference.

Their hardware takes an image of your device which will contain deleted data unless its PROPERLY overwritten.

The only way around is strong encryption backed by an equally strong password which they can't lawfully compel you to give them. Period.
Click to expand...

The security wipe on a BlackBerry takes about half hour minimum. From my experience of years of BB tinkering and ownership, I'm positive there is no 'trace' of any data when it's finished. It just reverts back to the stock OS settings when fired up again.

You can reload your backed up OS, settings, data, pics just as you had before the wipe, and carry on as nothing happened.

Nobody does security better than BlackBerry. Period.



Sent from my Passport
 
Just because it's a phone/computer instead of a suitcase the rules don't change...................yet.

The way it's legislated right now CBSA is authorized to look at anything you are carrying into the country by any method of storage.

In the same way that they are authorized to break the lock on your suitcase or take apart your vehicle when you have determined not to cooperate in the exam, they are well within their legal right to hold your electronic device for determination of the contents and send it off to be decrypted etc. Currently non-compliance can be taken a step further than CBSA just gaining access themselves and the charge of "hindering" as defined by the act, applies. Maybe this court case changes that, maybe it doesn't.

Until there is a change in the rules though, there is good advice in this thread regarding not having anything on your phone you don't want Border Services Officers to see and traveling with a "clean device".

If however you are really a top secret agent like "caboose56" then your agency will have a Memorandum of Understanding with the CBSA regarding the inspection of those items, like let's say the military, and your super top secret files will not be compromised. Any security conscious company is not sending super sensitive info across the border in the hands of their "subject to inspection" employee. If they are then either they need a new head of security or they have led the employee to believe their role within the company and the information they possess is much more powerful than it actually is.

Your choices are; 1. Be compliant and have an easy life. 2. Be non-compliant outside the legal process and see how that works for you. 3. Take advantage of living in a democracy, challenge the issues in court, vote in a party that see things your way. 4. Rise up and start a revolution, take control of the government and do it "the right way". And everyone's favorite #5. Whinge about it on a motorcycle forum.
 
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Shut your wingehole!

verb, noun
1.
(Austral) a variant spelling of whinge
 
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