From what I can read yes it is ok as long as you don't upgrade your license from a g it appears to be a loophole as long as you have a black plate and are under length
Sent from the future
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Licence testing for towing recreational trailers ?
- Thread starter TK4
- Start date
Sent from the future
Here's what constitutes a "commercial vehicle".
e-Laws | Ontario.ca
A black license plate on a pickup does not automatically constitute commercial vehicle so far as the law as there are MANY well under 4500kg GVWR (read the link), and it also does not override license requirements, i.e. just because it is a "commercial vehicle" you're not excluded from needing a AR license if you're vehicle being towed over a certain weight. ....or a full A to pull 2 trailers.
A Chevy Colorado gets black plates in Ontario, yet it's about as far from being a "commercial vehicle" as is possible.
In short, vehicle classification does not override licence requirements or restrictions. I can't drive a bus with my class A any more than someone with a G can pull 2 trailers.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Mad Mike got it from the provincial website that has the MTO laws.
Law Document English View
Welcome to the new e-Laws. It’s now easier than ever to find Ontario laws. We welcome your feedback.
www.ontario.ca
Mad Mike
Well-known member
All vehicles built on a truck frame are considered a commercial vehicles in Ontario. If it's under 4,500GWRW, it can get a blue plate, but it's still a commercial vehicle.Here's what constitutes a "commercial vehicle".
e-Laws | Ontario.ca
www.ontario.ca
A black license plate on a pickup does not automatically constitute commercial vehicle so far as the law as there are MANY well under 4500kg GVWR (read the link), and it also does not override license requirements, i.e. just because it is a "commercial vehicle" you're not excluded from needing a AR license if you're vehicle being towed over a certain weight. ....or a full A to pull 2 trailers.
View attachment 66690
A Chevy Colorado gets black plates in Ontario, yet it's about as far from being a "commercial vehicle" as is possible.
In short, vehicle classification does not override licence requirements or restrictions. I can't drive a bus with my class A any more than someone with a G can pull 2 trailers.
This includes Colorados, Tundras, and Suburbans, but not Ridgelines, Grand Cherokees or Mavericks.
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Mad Mike got it from the provincial website that has the MTO laws.
Law Document English View
Welcome to the new e-Laws. It’s now easier than ever to find Ontario laws. We welcome your feedback.
View attachment 66691
That's rather contradictory to everything else they publish and I'm wondering if it's an oversight or a typo.
Again, it's abundantly clear almost everywhere, and logic dictates it as well, ie even the class AR and D alike, both of which requires additional testing and training, don't allow doubles. It's a stretch to claim that a regular old class G allows it however, accordingly.
Why would a class AR licence restrict it then? What's the logic?
No, they're not. Read the link I posted. Anything under 4500kg GVWR is not commercial.
Anyhow, on the multiple trailer issue, perhaps I'll inquire directly with the ministry of transportation as I have some currently open lines of communication on another topic.
Shaman
Well-known member
My wallet feels this statement.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
The R restricts the driver from pulling the trailer if it's equipped with air brakes.
Anything over 4500 is only commercial (you can't plate a fleet version of the Ford Excursion or a SuburbanHD as they have GVRW over 4500kg).
Anything built on a truck frame is also commercial, only trucks below 4500 can get blue plated.
Here's a good summary: https://ofa.on.ca/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Trailer-Towing-Checklist-Fact-Sheet-1.pdf
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That's the actual legal regulation. It would be surprising if there were typos and oversights in that document. The website on the other hand, I would not be at all surprised if it had things contrary to the underlying regulations as it is written by web people not law people.
EDIT:
Another interesting twist is a "Mobile Home" is not a trailer by definition. To be a "mobile home" it must be over 2.6m wide or 11m long. So convoluted.
Law Document English View
Welcome to the new e-Laws. It’s now easier than ever to find Ontario laws. We welcome your feedback.
www.ontario.ca
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Nope. sorry.
It needs a forward facing seat belt behind the driver's seat if it's classed as a light truck to get a passenger plate.
My Astro cargo van is only eligible for commercial plates, GVW around 3500kg. (Then I got PUO endorsement, which mysteriously raises the GVW to 4500kg. WHAT????)
A Astro passenger van (3900kg GVW), with seatbelts in the back (doesn't need seats, just belts) is eligible for commercial or passenger plates.
Weight restrictions are plates FIRST, then driver's license.... then BOTH
The only way I get a weight ticket in my car is if i exceed 11,000kg (total vehicle weight, including trailer) on my driver's license.
I can get a weight ticket in my truck if I exceed 4500kg on two axles (what the truck is LICENSED for)
i could never get anyone to tell me what my allowed total vehicle weight was. GM doesn't publish anything about trailer specs on Astros, so I kept below 11,000kg trying to be safe. My greatest fear was getting pulled over on the way to Cayuga early sunday morning by some pimply faced new OPP officer trying for points. AFIK the only MTO scale open early sunday morning would be Aurora... and i had visions of paying three tow trucks to get pulled to Aurora from the Hamilton mt. only to be told i was legal.
In a Dodge pickup, the passenger seat used to be an option, you had to buy it, and if you DIDN'T buy it, you still got a seat belt. The passenger side visor was an option too. Canada law said you couldn't sell a pick up with only one belt... doesn't say you have to provide a chair.
TK4
Well-known member
Better safe than sorry.
Shaman
Well-known member
Funny you say that, I got pulled over going to Cayuga to one of Tammy Byng's Reddawn track days. I had just received my new RSV4 track bike (in street trim still) and got my existing street RSV4 back from Corsa Meccanica (RIP), plus three track bikes in my trailer and my KX140L in the truck bed. That was good fun wrestling with him over whether I needed a trip sticker and keep a log book when I had six motorcycles and two of them were essentially brand new (one completely new).
I keep a MTO booklet in the truck. I went and got it, flipped to the page for personal use of a vehicle, and said "this is my hill to die on, give me a ticket and I'll come beat you in court, and you'll find out you're not the law, you just enforce it." He loved that, but turned on his heel and walked back to his police cruiser. Pretty sure that he's been successful in the past but if you've seen any of my old posts about cops here on this forum, you will know I'm well aware that they can't be trusted to follow the law and I am prepared for that argument.
The really dumb thing is if that was a camper and not an enclosed trailer suitable for say, a carpenter, there's not a thing they could do ... and mine holds 3 motorcycles in the rear Pitbull stands plus two inside the camper. So, a camper that is roughly 50% heavier and 50% longer is not subject to as much legislation as my trailer - and doesn't require any sort of inspection papers. Idiotic.
You don't, unless you are using the truck commercially, IE actually doing something that generates an income. Almost every grocery getter pavement princess ickup truck in this province has black plates....that doesn't mean you need to run logbooks and do daily inspections etc.
Like I've tried to say more than a few times in this thread, black plates does not automatically a commercial truck make.
That's the setup that I have, although the intent is to not tow a trailer most of the time. (I no longer own one). I have a hitch and I've towed other trailers.
GVWR 39xx kg
Curb weight is around 21xx kg
Tow rating 5000 lb / 2250 kg
Black license plate, personal use. No logbook needed.
I've been told that double axle trailers that aren't RVs attract attention, sIngle axle trailers don't.
I got away from towing trailers behind cars, because every car I want to own is "towing not recommended" on this side of the pond, even where European versions of the same car say 600 kg without trailer brakes and 1300 kg with.
The regulations are a mess, and I am fine with not having a trailer any longer.
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