bigpoppa
Well-known member
The guy single handedly changed how I look at motorcycles and riding...Great read
The guy single handedly changed how I look at motorcycles and riding...Great read
Here's a more detailed explanation: Accelerating in a curve? Well ...I was going to write a long rant that addresses the underlined section, and what causes these sort of errors by riders, but this interview with Nick Ienatsch sums it up better than I ever could:
Legend Ride Coach Nick Ienatsch - Myth Busting Radius & Miles Per Hour
Tldr: A lot of newer riders are given really bad advice
The typical stopping distance at 60 kph is 32 metres, and at 200 kph it jumps to 272 metres.A hypothetical situation exaggerated for an example. In a 60 KPH zone a sport bike with a small frontal area is doing 200 KPH. A turning driver looks an appropriate distance down the road for a 60 KPH zone, misses seeing the bike and a collision occurs. A curve in the road or a change in elevation makes it worse. Who is at fault?
Additional factors are rider reaction time which would be a fixed time but at three + times the speed there is three + times the safety zone eaten up and far more barking distance needed. Reaction time could be greater if the rider is mentally focused on his track or shift points. When suddenly confronted by a turning semi the panic sets in. RIP. This is why excessive speed is for the track.
Rejoining the 401 from the shoulder is different from pulling away from the curb in a school zone.
I can see where speed can make a difference, I don't buy that as a defense unless speed somehow makes an oncoming rider/driver invisible. A responsible driver doesn't make a left across lanes until such time as they can safely do so.I would be vrey interesting to see any of the police reports to get a better idea of the situation. When they review the scene they can determine the speeds involved, as told to me by one of our officers. Until then just be more cautious of left or right turners they are everywhere trying to get infront of you, either because they can't determine a bike speed and distance (smaller object) or just being selfish.
Well the truck driver was safe :/ He was uninjured and looking at a $90 ticket. Too bad for the guy he might have killed. (Said with some sarcasm, but sadly it's the truth from the truck drivers perspective)I can see where speed can make a difference, I don't buy that as a defense unless speed somehow makes an oncoming rider/driver invisible. A responsible driver doesn't make a left across lanes until such time as they can safely do so.
If you can't judge the closing speed of an oncoming vehicle, how are you certain you can safely make a turn?
This table doesn't show typical stopping distances, those are beginner numbers you would expect at an M1 learner course, an experienced rider should stop in 1/2 those distances.The typical stopping distance at 60 kph is 32 metres, and at 200 kph it jumps to 272 metres.
70 is 42
80 is 53
90 is 64
100 is 77
110 is 92,
120 is 107, so you can see that it doesn't go up linearly. Double the speed, isn't double the braking distance.
Since vehicles are only a few metres wide, you can see how going only a tiny bit faster can mean the difference between being able to stop safely and crashing into another vehicle.
The typical stopping distance at 60 kph is 32 metres, and at 200 kph it jumps to 272 metres.
70 is 42
80 is 53
90 is 64
100 is 77
110 is 92,
120 is 107, so you can see that it doesn't go up linearly. Double the speed, isn't double the braking distance.
Since vehicles are only a few metres wide, you can see how going only a tiny bit faster can mean the difference between being able to stop safely and crashing into another vehicle.
This table doesn't show typical stopping distances, those are beginner numbers you would expect at an M1 learner course, an experienced rider should stop in 1/2 those distances.
My point isn't to challenge your numbers, the take away here is practice, practice, practice then go take an advanced rider training course. Once proficient, you should be able to stop in about 1/2 those distances. It takes time and experience to shave reaction time - that could take years. It only takes practice and training to cut the actual stop time once you're on the brakes -- novices can close that gap in their first season.
Sadly many riders go years without worrying about their braking skills -- sadly many figure out their limitations in a Come to Jesus moment. Imagine how many riders would have avoided crashes if they were able to brake in 1/2 the distance?
Practice, practice, practice and get trained.
I think those numbers are from the UK's Motorcycle Learner's website -- they are often quoted.Where are those numbers from? I assume that includes reaction time as well or is was it a brake at the line test? If they include reaction times, that could explain some of the strangeness in the numbers.
Thanks. Haha, that page has some real gems. If you learned something from below, please stay off the road.I think those numbers are from the UK's Motorcycle Learner's website -- they are often quoted.
Motorbike Stopping Distances with Chart | Braking |
The same numbers are used in most online calculators.
I wasn't questioning the validity of your data, just looking for more information. Theoretically, doubling speed quadruples stopping distance, but that is only looking at the time the brakes are actually on. Including reaction time makes the distance vs speed have a much more complicated relationship.If you really think that people shouldn't be making left turns into moving traffic, then I have a field trip for you. Go down to South Kingway, turn onto one of the side streets on the east side, and then try and make a left turn, i.e. South, onto South Kingsway during rush hour.
I think we are on the same page. If you are driving at stupid speeds OR you are oblivious to potential hazards, we have a forum waiting for you.They're actually from the U.K. automobile section. The idea was to show that stopping distance isn't linear, so it doesn't really matter which tables you use. Someone had said something above above doubling the speed which doubles the stopping distance, which isn't correct. As far as halfing the values, I'd like to see that at 200 kph, especially if you don't regularly cover the brake levers.
My bias is because, although I've had numerous left-turners flash out in front of me over the years, I've never managed to hit one, whether I was driving a cage or a bike. I've been in two accidents with them, but both were when they hit me, not the other way around. Practice, practice, practice, but then you have to be able to apply it in the real world, in imperfect situations, with a fraction of a second's notice. A man's got to know his limitations. To be on top of your game, you need to realize that there is no fixed requirement for judging closing distance on the motor vehicle test. Therefore, if you are closing at twice the speed limit, you expect that the people making left turns will misjudge your speed, and adjust your speed accordingly. If you're not doing that, then you're dangerous and have no business being on the road, whether you believe it's someone else's fault or not. You've broken one of the two most basic commandments of driving: "Don't hit anything", while they've broken the other: "Don't place yourself in a position to be hit". If you really think that people shouldn't be making left turns into moving traffic, then I have a field trip for you. Go down to South Kingway, turn onto one of the side streets on the east side, and then try and make a left turn, i.e. South, onto South Kingsway during rush hour.
If you want a more rigorous stopping distance calculator, try here: Stopping distance calculator
Not so fast I had a guy on a bike pull out in front of me as he merrily followed his buddies into the round about. There was a lull between them and he wasn't even looking when he cut out in front of me.They need to replace intersections with round abouts!
i didn't say the public doesn't need to be educated.Not so fast I had a guy on a bike pull out in front of me as he merrily followed his buddies into the round about. There was a lull between them and he wasn't even looking when he cut out in front of me.
I agree the stealthy pirate suit isn't providing the rider any advantage.I didn't see anything in the prior posts about trying to be visible. You might think (as lots must) that flat black helmets and black gear is cool but if the driver doesn't see you he might be legally in the wrong but whats it matter if your dead.
After pinning a construction vest to my jacket my buddy commented that he couldn't wear the "short bus vest". I could care less especially now that everyone seems to drive with their head in their phone.
I wouldn't lump construction vests and loud pipes. One is quite effective in many situations and other than being dumb looking has little downside, the other is very very occasionally helpful while being constantly annoying to anyone within a mile of you.I agree the stealthy pirate suit isn't providing the rider any advantage.
I have to admit, I have trouble with construction vests and loud pipe arguments -- not going to find those on me. I have high tech reflectors on all my bikes, I ride with 2 color headlamps, and I always ride in light colors, partly to increase visibility, partly to stay cool (as in temperature cool).
I hear you. The loud pipe and high vis arguments are fun, but we've already beaten those horses to death. You can never have enough safety and if those things make a rider feel safer than go for them.I wouldn't lump construction vests and loud pipes. One is quite effective in many situations and other than being dumb looking has little downside, the other is very very occasionally helpful while being constantly annoying to anyone within a mile of you.