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Law Enforcement - The Good, The Bad, The Ugly.....
- Thread starter Paul
- Start date
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
How does that justify a kick to the face while the suspect is complying with every order the cop is giving him?
How does that justify a kick to the face while the suspect is complying with every order the cop is giving him?
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
That's what gets me. There would be less incentive to comply if an unwarranted beat down becomes the norm. How is that any good? How does that serve the public?
That's what gets me. There would be less incentive to comply if an unwarranted beat down becomes the norm. How is that any good? How does that serve the public?
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
would that not also endanger the police as well? I can see people taking a proactive approach to this if it became the norm..
would that not also endanger the police as well? I can see people taking a proactive approach to this if it became the norm..
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
Complying? Maybe, but he did not comply immediately or quickly even according to the person who shot the video. Was the shooter deliberately taking his time in complying, stalling for time while looking for an opening to attack or escape? It may be easy to critique after the fact but the cop doesn't know at the time. All the cop knows is that he's facing a person who is reported to be mentally unstable due to brain injury, and who was considered armed and dangerous having just fired off gunshots at a golf course moments before.
The reporter who shot the video states:
Complying? Maybe, but he did not comply immediately or quickly even according to the person who shot the video. Was the shooter deliberately taking his time in complying, stalling for time while looking for an opening to attack or escape? It may be easy to critique after the fact but the cop doesn't know at the time. All the cop knows is that he's facing a person who is reported to be mentally unstable due to brain injury, and who was considered armed and dangerous having just fired off gunshots at a golf course moments before.
The reporter who shot the video states:
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
Take down or beat down? The cop took down possibly-armed shooting suspect who was not complying quickly enough with instructions to lay down on the pavement. That's a whole lot different from a back-alley beat-down of an already in-custody wife-beating suspect that you said that you would be ok with.
Take down or beat down? The cop took down possibly-armed shooting suspect who was not complying quickly enough with instructions to lay down on the pavement. That's a whole lot different from a back-alley beat-down of an already in-custody wife-beating suspect that you said that you would be ok with.
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
I would think so. As it stands now, we've been told, every citizen must be treated with caution in the interest of police safety even tho the vast majority are not criminals.
If these types of beat downs continue to rise one could safely assume the average joe or jane will become very skittish.
I'd like to see brass come forward and denounce this publicaly. If not, show reason why not.
I would think so. As it stands now, we've been told, every citizen must be treated with caution in the interest of police safety even tho the vast majority are not criminals.
If these types of beat downs continue to rise one could safely assume the average joe or jane will become very skittish.
I'd like to see brass come forward and denounce this publicaly. If not, show reason why not.
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
Turbo, the suspect was in the process of physically lying down on his stomach when he was kicked in the face. He wasn't on his knees mouthing back, he wasn't rolling around on the ground, he was lowering himself down. He was complying in every way with the officer's commands. If that put the officer on anyone else at risk then he only has himself to blame for giving the wrong orders! Was the suspect supposed to obey faster for the sake of public safety? Seriously?
On the other hand, consider that the officer waited to kick the suspect in the head even while he was in the process of complying, at a time when the suspect was in the most vulnerable position. If he had been kneeling up he might have seen the kick coming and avoided it. If he had been lying down the officer wouldn't have been able to get as much force into the kick. Everything points to the officer simply acting impetuously out of anger. The same way I would expect a criminal to do.
If the story turns out later as it seems to me right now, the officer should be convicted of assault, lose his job, do jail time, and never be placed in a position of authority or entrusted to follow an oath for the rest of his life. We have the right to expect more from our cops, the same way we are more outraged when cops are victims of violence. If they want to be held to a higher standard (and I want them to) then they should be prepared for the steep fall from grace as much as they are prepared to take all the praise, as circumstances dictate.
Turbo, the suspect was in the process of physically lying down on his stomach when he was kicked in the face. He wasn't on his knees mouthing back, he wasn't rolling around on the ground, he was lowering himself down. He was complying in every way with the officer's commands. If that put the officer on anyone else at risk then he only has himself to blame for giving the wrong orders! Was the suspect supposed to obey faster for the sake of public safety? Seriously?
On the other hand, consider that the officer waited to kick the suspect in the head even while he was in the process of complying, at a time when the suspect was in the most vulnerable position. If he had been kneeling up he might have seen the kick coming and avoided it. If he had been lying down the officer wouldn't have been able to get as much force into the kick. Everything points to the officer simply acting impetuously out of anger. The same way I would expect a criminal to do.
If the story turns out later as it seems to me right now, the officer should be convicted of assault, lose his job, do jail time, and never be placed in a position of authority or entrusted to follow an oath for the rest of his life. We have the right to expect more from our cops, the same way we are more outraged when cops are victims of violence. If they want to be held to a higher standard (and I want them to) then they should be prepared for the steep fall from grace as much as they are prepared to take all the praise, as circumstances dictate.
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
Turbo stop ignoring all the facts so you can praise and love the police. ALL WITNESSES say he was following the orders of police. STOP IGNORING THAT FACT! As along as he complying there is no need for an NFL style punt. Face it your cop is in the wrong just like how the suspect misused his firearm in this case (but who are we to say it wasnt because of his brain injuries).
Also from that great article you posted:
"The video shows the suspect -- identified by Global B.C. as Buddy Tavares -- being ordered to his hands and knees by police and, after he assumes the position, an officer appears to step up and kick him in the face."
Doesnt that look what he was doing in the video. Again pay attention to details and stop going pro police with everything. They are human and they do screw up. Just like this cop did and he deserves to be fired and charged .
Turbo stop ignoring all the facts so you can praise and love the police. ALL WITNESSES say he was following the orders of police. STOP IGNORING THAT FACT! As along as he complying there is no need for an NFL style punt. Face it your cop is in the wrong just like how the suspect misused his firearm in this case (but who are we to say it wasnt because of his brain injuries).
Also from that great article you posted:
"The video shows the suspect -- identified by Global B.C. as Buddy Tavares -- being ordered to his hands and knees by police and, after he assumes the position, an officer appears to step up and kick him in the face."
Doesnt that look what he was doing in the video. Again pay attention to details and stop going pro police with everything. They are human and they do screw up. Just like this cop did and he deserves to be fired and charged .
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Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
And chances are he'll get off scott-free because he was dealing with a cowboy and not a proper cop.
And chances are he'll get off scott-free because he was dealing with a cowboy and not a proper cop.
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
Don't hold your breath. There may be more to the whole incident than you might think.
Don't hold your breath. There may be more to the whole incident than you might think.
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
What led up to the incident is irrelevant to this discussion. The "cop" stepped way out of line on the arrest. Even a halfassed lawyer should be able to get the suspect off due to the cowboy's behavior. If the "cop" becomes the norm, people are gonna become less likely to comply with police instructions. I come from a place where such scum got ambushed and dealt with by otherwise law-abiding citizens. Would you like for that to become a norm here?
What led up to the incident is irrelevant to this discussion. The "cop" stepped way out of line on the arrest. Even a halfassed lawyer should be able to get the suspect off due to the cowboy's behavior. If the "cop" becomes the norm, people are gonna become less likely to comply with police instructions. I come from a place where such scum got ambushed and dealt with by otherwise law-abiding citizens. Would you like for that to become a norm here?
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
So?
Apologies to everybody but this guy blows my ******* mind.
So?
Apologies to everybody but this guy blows my ******* mind.
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
I see 2 people who broke the law (if what was said about Tavares is true). The main issue is that one of them is in jail awaiting trial and the other is on desk duty with pay.
This will probably end up like the Bryant trial (or lack of) where prior acts that the officer wouldn't and didn't know at the time are used to justify actions taken.
I see 2 people who broke the law (if what was said about Tavares is true). The main issue is that one of them is in jail awaiting trial and the other is on desk duty with pay.
This will probably end up like the Bryant trial (or lack of) where prior acts that the officer wouldn't and didn't know at the time are used to justify actions taken.
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
Well how about that. The shooter has been charged with careless use of a firearm in connection with a domestic violence incident. You should be able to sleep easy tonight.
Well how about that. The shooter has been charged with careless use of a firearm in connection with a domestic violence incident. You should be able to sleep easy tonight.
Re: Police State Canada 2010 and the G20 Summit
They're already on it, according to turbot.
They're already on it, according to turbot.
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