Last night I T-Boned a transit bus...

[Jag_V4Ape]

This is so bogus! Look at that google maps picture! Now look at the street. Does it look like a road that would NOT have a stop sign in the direction OP was heading (aka towards an boulevard!).

1. There is no "tree" that'll cover the stop sign, but there is a bush. That bush will not grow larger than it is and will not cover or obstruct that stop sign. OP, I understand you want to save yourself from the embarrassment of admitting "I missed a stop sign because I was lost in trance or something" by telling the truth. By adding an excuse to help your situation is totally BS! When I was a rookie I remember I accidentally ran two red lights over the season because I was looking at my gauge a little longer than normal and by the time I looked up it had turned red. That doesn't mean I'm going to cover that embarrassment up and say "oh my speedo wasn't working or my fuel was low so I had to constantly keep an eye on it".

Anyways, my prediction is (for your disobeying stop sign) you fight this or not, you'll be getting dinged on it one way or another (Insurance or Court). That bus service is going to call insurance where yours will most likely end up find out, and/or you'll be hit with the charges thus insurance will find out again eventually. As for your Mx license ticket, I have no idea - that can go either way.

 

[Jag_V4Ape]

Sorry double post.

 

[Spiider]

Bottom line...he was out riding in a situation he knew he shouldn't have been in...and he made that decision for monetary gain, he didn't "accidentally stay out too late" or come across an obscured stop sign or other excuse.

The reason you aren't allowed out riding that late is because you don't yet have the experience to make the correct decisions necessary to avoid exactly this type of accident.

Your insurance company will know this happened by 9:15am today.
Your bike is likely a write off.

You might as well call them to report it, use your coverage to replace your bike and fix the bus.
If the time of the accident was even close to the "30 min past sunset" limitation of your license I would argue it happened at a time that was within judgement/prudence. Let the insurance company figure out whether they will cover you or not...that's up to them. Don't mention it, but answer truthfully if they ask. Cross you fingers they possibly do not notice.

STANDARD TIMES OF SOLAR RISE/SET FOR
TORONTO ON
2012​

​

​

Longitude = 79° 22.2' West, Latitude = 43° 44.4' North

Time zone is EST, -5 UTC
Correction from standard meridian : 17.48 minutes

Add one hour to listed times when Daylight Saving Time is in effect.

[h=1]Jun 3[/h]

Nautical Twilight Start :	3:16
Civil Twilight Start :	4:02
Sunrise :	4:37
Local Noon :	12:16
Sunset :	19:54
Civil Twilight End :	20:30
Nautical Twilight End :	21:16

 

[robmack]

There are regulations for sign placement and visibility that the sign has to meet.

Brian P, do you happen to know where those regulations are published? I need to defend a ticket issued based on signage.

 

[mimico_polak]

Personally I think you should count your blessings that you've survived hitting a bus, and that you weren't charged with failing to stop. As for insurance, yes they will find out. I highly doubt that the transit company is going to let this slide just to be nice and help a new rider out. I'm sure that they go through similar situations all the time and will not make an exception. I don't know how tough their stance is on being out past a certain time.

As for fighting the ticket...fight or don't fight, your call. I was in an accident many years ago, didn't get a ticket, yet the insurance company hit me for it for years to come (making a left turn out of driveway, 2 lanes stopped to let me out, the centre left turn lane was being used by some guy in order to bypass the stopped traffic. Cop didn't charge me because he said the guy shouldn't have been there but I am the one that was in the wrong in that case...ah well)

 

[rich6969]

Op glad your ok... i think if you fight this your going to open a can of warms.....knowing you only have m1 and should not be out after dark is going to come back and bite you in the ***......my 2 cents anyways

 

[bboySushi]

Glad you're alright, but now you should learn that you ALWAYS assume drivers are idiots at any intersection and will run a red light/stop sign. Don't put your life in some other idiot's hands, I always cover brake and horn (horn mostly in the car) when approaching an intersection. When I'm stopped at a stop sign and turning left and there's a car coming, I'll wait to make sure they're slowing down for the sign before proceeding. Don't guess at how good/bad a driver is.

 

[Jag_V4Ape]

You sorta would have been in a better situation if this was not a municipal bus since you'd be more lucky to do this private where insurance doesn't have to findout. But your biggest problem is the bus company will file a claim! Thats where your insurance problem is - hell with the tickets since your rates will go up regardless. You can try hiring Redline if you want a good paralegal service, but they aren't exactly that cheap.

 

[nobbie48]

Re Night driving, you knowingly broke the law to make money. Not a good excuse. You weren't on your way to the hospital to perform a heart transplant. An explanation of doing it to make extra money might actually go against you.

I can understand the hidden signs as I occasionally see the situation.

JonnyWyshbone says you might get off with the TTC but I don't see why they would as they don't know you from a hole in the ground. The paperwork goes into a massive system and it is very likely that your insurance company will find out. That will go on your insurance record for many years. Theoretically they could refuse to pay the bill because of the night riding but I speculate that they only pull that card when the stakes are higher.

In any case where I got hit my insurance company only asked if the other driver got charged. They don't ask if they got convicted. If the cop charged you, the insurance company / no fault tags you with the crash. That has nothing to do with the court but rather the way the insurance act works.

I would spend my time trying to keep the damages out of the insurance company's view. That means trying to pick up the TTC paper trail for the damages. I have no idea of how they work. Do they charge you for a rental bus while the one you hit is out of service? They could.

Some TTC stuff is crazy expensive.

There's no reason why you couldn't go to court prepared to fight the charge but if you see it going sour ask to change your plea and settle up.

 

[JonnyWyshbone]

Dude, seriously try to get a pretrial meeting. Tell the crown that you understand the officer was doing u a favour with the ticket he gave u, but tell them your job requires you to have a clean driving record and it would be to your detriment to have this show up on your record. Just beg and plead and show them that ur paying for your own repairs so you are kinda being punished for this. U may still have a problem with insurance, but at least you may get the ticket off your file.

 

[BMWSTRider]

Get a date to see a prosecutor, it's most likely to be 6 months from now, then go upgrade to your M2 when you are eligible. When your ticket date is up plead guilty with an explanation, as you did mess up and you thank your stars you are alive to ride and be with your family for another day.not stopping at a stop sign even if it was obscured by a tree shows lack of inexperience of driving. Most prosecutors will reduce the charge. Pay your fine, and continue to enjoy the fine sport of motorcycling. As per your insurance company, they are a whole different ball game.. Remember keep your head up and scan the road and mirrors, don't just look but observe..

PS do not try to contact the police officer as that would be interfering with due process and could lead to another charge, if you meet him at the courthouse on the appointed date and speak to him I think that should be fine.

 

[kickstartt]

Why do people say this? Insurance doesn't care how many points you have, only the MTO cares about the points.

Insurance companies do care, the amount of Demerit points deducted will show up on your annual insurance report and it will affect your insurance premium.

 

[canukgirl77]

How'd you bust a right peg when the bus was coming from your right, you turned right to avoid it and hit the left side of the bus? Did you dump the bike, or spin a 180?

I think you made off pretty well, considering you were driving at night when you weren't legally entitled to. I'm all for fighting tickets too... but not when you got off scot free on that potential charge.

And hell no, don't try to contact the officer and ask him not to show up. I hope you were kidding about that one. If not... wow...

 

[silent_vik]

pay the fine and theres no risk of bringing up the riding at night time charge up.
dont pay the fine and there is a potential risk of bringing a more severe charge which could mean suspended license.
are you a gambling man?

 

[Bigevildoer]

as for your insurance you can always "play dumb" and not mention it. if they dont pull your driver abstract regularly they may never see the points on your license

And, if for some reason they do pull it in the future (if he gets a speeding ticket or whatever, even a simple renewal) he will get dropped by the company for failure to disclose. Try getting insurance anywhere after that.

 

[vkhamphi]

Insurance companies do care, the amount of Demerit points deducted will show up on your annual insurance report and it will affect your insurance premium.

No they don't, they only care about convictions. The crown can do you a "favour" and offer no demerits and a reduced fine if you plead guilty but the insurance company will then see that conviction and ding you for it.

You don't have demerit points deducted, you have them added on. The demerit system is for the MTO to track to see if you should have the privilege to drive. Accumulate enough then that warrants a warning. Accumulate even more then they'll suspend your licence.

 

[Major]

Okay...
1st - I'm glad you're okay. You're able to walk away and that's God helping you out. May not seem like it now, but sometimes you get what you need, not what you want.

2nd - I'm not going to lecture you on the mistakes you made. I'm sure when you're calmer and can critically reflect, you will be able to learn a few things from this.

Now let's deal with the facts of what has occurred and some options you have and decisions you will HAVE to make.

The Ticket....
IF you truly believe there are grounds to fight the ticket, then FIGHT IT. Prepare a defence and the grounds to introduce reasonable doubt. Re-visit the scene with a friend and take pictures. Remember to visit it at the same time of day and try to note the environmental conditions. Write down everything you can remember from the incident.

Were were you coming from? Where were you going? Was this a new route or had you travelled it before? What time did you depart? Did you leave yourself enough time to make it to your destination (in consideration of license limitations)? Were you behind schedule or on time at the time of the incident? How can you determine at what speed you were travelling? When was the last time you checked your speedometer? I will try and PM you some additional questions.

Remember the Crown and the Officer are going to try and make the charge stick so they are going to ask you some difficult questions and will illustrate your novice status.

This ticket will not directly affect your insurance right now. It's any subsequent tickets you may receive within the next 3 years that will really impact the rating. 2 or more tickets will affect the rating and 2 minors + the collision will put you in facility for 3 years.

The collision....
Have you read your insurance certificate? Pull it out now. Do you have premiums beside Collision or All Perils coverage? If so, then you have direct coverage on the motorcycle. How are you feeling 24-48 hours after? Sore, stiff, neck? If you are injured, then make notes on it and visit your doctor. If you have collision or All Perils, then report it right away. You're going to be rated for the collision so you may as well get your bike repaired or paid out quickly.

The insurance company WILL find out about the incident. But when you should you report it? When is the insurance renewal? If you don't have collision or All Perils and the renewal is less than 60 days away, you may be able to dodge the premium increase for another year. Depending on when the TTC (not the police) reports the collision to your insurance company the renewal date will pass and the next renewal will reflect the re-rating.

Don't worry about the insurance company trying to deny coverage based on any alleged moving violations (the ticket or you riding outside your license restrictions). The only grounds of denying coverage is usually based on you lying at the time of applying for coverage (a material misrepresentation that would have affected the premium charged) or a criminal act (such as racing or drinking charge).

Summary of decision points you have to make....
1. Fight the ticket based on reasonable grounds.
2. Report to your insurance company if you have collision or all perils coverage or if you are hurt.
3. Wait for the TTC to report if you don't have direct coverage on the bike AND are not hurt.

Sorry for the long post, but there is a lot of info to cover.

 

[Major]

And, if for some reason they do pull it in the future (if he gets a speeding ticket or whatever, even a simple renewal) he will get dropped by the company for failure to disclose. Try getting insurance anywhere after that.

False. There is no requirement for you to contact your insurance company every renewal to advise them of any convictions. They will pull abstracts on their own and rate in accordance with their rules.

The requirement to disclose is on APPLYING for insurance.

 

[Major]

Insurance companies do care, the amount of Demerit points deducted will show up on your annual insurance report and it will affect your insurance premium.

Where are you getting this? Most standard lines automobile insurance companies do not review the points received with each conviction. The MTO lists the conviction as a Minor, Major or Criminal Code infraction. The insurance companies file rules with the Financial Services Commission of Ontario on how they will treat these violations in their rating.

All insurance companies I know of only review the Minor, Major or Criminal Code nature in relation to their underwriting rules and not the demerit points.

The MTO however will review the demerit points when deciding to suspend your license. http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/dandv/driver/demerit.shtml

 

[canukgirl77]

False. There is no requirement for you to contact your insurance company every renewal to advise them of any convictions. They will pull abstracts on their own and rate in accordance with their rules.

The requirement to disclose is on APPLYING for insurance.

This is what I thought too. I got a doozy speeding ticket almost 3 years ago (that got dropped to a minor), as well as one seatbelt violation 2 years ago. I've had my insurance renewed, bike and car, 2 different companies, and both have me as a clean driver/rider. I guess they don't check up on me all that often.

If they were to ask, i.e. if I was insurance shopping, I'd tell. Since I've been with the same companies for a few years now, though, I haven't told them. Hell, I just bought a new car, and they didn't ask then either, when changing the vehicle on my policy.