Lance Armstrong Doping

Is Lance stilll a Hero or now a Zero?

  • Hero

    Votes: 14 45.2%
  • Zero

    Votes: 17 54.8%

  • Total voters
    31
Agreed on both counts. The fact that the chump in charge of the USADA is ignoring their own regulations in the commission of this witch hunt just makes it more hilarious.



I knew kids (14-17) that were pressured to start using HGH and other PEDs to get an advantage on their competition to get full rides to US Colleges for sports. There's a sick reality that everyone knows about but no one comments on.

Cheating is the new Capitalism.
I read they asked some business students why they cheated, they said because we picked the best option and got to the solution the fastest way which is the Capitalist system. They said something to that affect.

Start passing out jail time to everyone involved and the problem will almost go away. There will always be that few, just ramp up their jail time.

It is said that kids are doping, they will just be tossed in the garbage once their health fails by the time they are 30.
 
Also, not everyone reacts the same to PEDs, so the order will not necessarily be the same when they are all clean.

You're probably right and I agree. Doping is wrong BUT how do you prevent people from doping if the tests are not 100% affective and there is ways around them. The answer is that you CAN'T! Especially when there is millions of dollars on the line, people will find a way. It sucks but this is the state of sport right now. It's one of those catch 22 things. You're screwed either way. You dope? You're a cheater. You don't dope? You won't be competitive and you can forget about having a career. My hat goes out to the people that chose to stay clean but at the end of the day this is how things work. The world is a cruel place.
 
You're probably right and I agree. Doping is wrong BUT how do you prevent people from doping if the tests are not 100% affective and there is ways around them. The answer is that you CAN'T! Especially when there is millions of dollars on the line, people will find a way. It sucks but this is the state of sport right now. It's one of those catch 22 things. You're screwed either way. You dope? You're a cheater. You don't dope? You won't be competitive and you can forget about having a career. My hat goes out to the people that chose to stay clean but at the end of the day this is how things work. The world is a cruel place.

Answer, jail time for everyone caught cheating and supporting/assisting the cheating
Whistle Blower and reward $500k is a good incentive for someone to come forward.
They have the ability to test.
Why do they need to announce what they will be testing for?
 
Cheating is the new Capitalism.
I read they asked some business students why they cheated, they said because we picked the best option and got to the solution the fastest way which is the Capitalist system. They said something to that affect.

Start passing out jail time to everyone involved and the problem will almost go away. There will always be that few, just ramp up their jail time.

It is said that kids are doping, they will just be tossed in the garbage once their health fails by the time they are 30.

More like 35-40 and by then they're multi-millionaires if they've gotten by without being caught.
 
More like 35-40 and by then they're multi-millionaires if they've gotten by without being caught.

The slim as in possibly less than 5% will ever see a million dollars much less multi millions by the time they are 35-40.
So let's say you make $100 million by age 40 and by age 41 you now have pancreatic cancer or a massive terminal brain tumor.
Is it still worth it?
 
The slim as in possibly less than 5% will ever see a million dollars much less multi millions by the time they are 35-40.
So let's say you make $100 million by age 40 and by age 41 you now have pancreatic cancer or a massive terminal brain tumor.
Is it still worth it?

YOLO!

(That was 100% sarcasm)

I'm not going to levy accusations or hint at who I'm talking about, but out of the few people I knew in HS that were using PEDs several are well on their way to becoming pro athletes. Anyone who's willing to do that to their body is obviously all about the money and fame, you'd have to ask them if it's worth it or not. I wouldn't use them and coincidentally I never got scouted.
 
YOLO!

(That was 100% sarcasm)

I'm not going to levy accusations or hint at who I'm talking about, but out of the few people I knew in HS that were using PEDs several are well on their way to becoming pro athletes. Anyone who's willing to do that to their body is obviously all about the money and fame, you'd have to ask them if it's worth it or not. I wouldn't use them and coincidentally I never got scouted.

I don't think a young person can truly comprehend the health implications.
They are 17-20 and feeling indestructible. Hence why the coach's and admin staff that are found to be involved need to suffer the penalty also. Think about it, everyone and every company related to Armstrong made their money and leave with their reputation in tact and no penalty...only to go out and do the same thing again.
 
Call me a cynic, but I think for companies like Nike it comes down to a simple calculation: will this person's name being associated with our brand make us money? If yes, they'll sponsor them, if no they don't. I guess Lance just shifted into the 'no' pile.
 
Agreed on both counts. The fact that the chump in charge of the USADA is ignoring their own regulations in the commission of this witch hunt just makes it more hilarious.
Can you elaborate on this. From what I read the USADA went by the book to make sure there's not wiggle room for any appeals, etc.
I knew kids (14-17) that were pressured to start using HGH and other PEDs to get an advantage on their competition to get full rides to US Colleges for sports. There's a sick reality that everyone knows about but no one comments on.
Yea, that's sad. That's why it bothers me when people say, everyone is doing it so it's ok.
 
I really don't care about what is going on or happening everywhere in sports. How can you as an athelete think or feel you are the best when you are doping. You are cheating and a lier. It sickens me that people do this and yea they should take his medals away and give them to someone that deserves it.
 
Call me a cynic, but I think for companies like Nike it comes down to a simple calculation: will this person's name being associated with our brand make us money? If yes, they'll sponsor them, if no they don't. I guess Lance just shifted into the 'no' pile.

Nothing cynical about it. At the end of the day, Nike is not a charity.
 
Can you elaborate on this. From what I read the USADA went by the book to make sure there's not wiggle room for any appeals, etc.
Yea, that's sad. That's why it bothers me when people say, everyone is doing it so it's ok.

The USADA guidelines put a statute of limitations on their investigations at 8 years. With Lance they went back as far as 15 years.

They found dirt on a lot of other riders (foreseeable since a vast majority of them are dirty) but offered them clemency in return for their testimony against Lance. I think when you offer someone a deal like that it brings with it some doubt in regards to their honesty.

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You're probably right and I agree. Doping is wrong BUT how do you prevent people from doping if the tests are not 100% affective and there is ways around them. The answer is that you CAN'T! Especially when there is millions of dollars on the line, people will find a way. It sucks but this is the state of sport right now. It's one of those catch 22 things. You're screwed either way. You dope? You're a cheater. You don't dope? You won't be competitive and you can forget about having a career. My hat goes out to the people that chose to stay clean but at the end of the day this is how things work. The world is a cruel place.
I think that's where you are wrong. It is very unlikely that we will ever be able to detect all doping, but I don't think we have to. We just have to change the attitude of the athletes/managers so that doping is unacceptable. Just like in Lance's case, there were people who knew he was doping, yet they did nothing about it. Probably because they either didn't think they could, were concerned that if they did their career would be over, etc. If we change that attitude, it will be much harder for dopers to exist as people will not hesitate to out them.
 
I think that's where you are wrong. It is very unlikely that we will ever be able to detect all doping, but I don't think we have to. We just have to change the attitude of the athletes/managers so that doping is unacceptable. Just like in Lance's case, there were people who knew he was doping, yet they did nothing about it. Probably because they either didn't think they could, were concerned that if they did their career would be over, etc. If we change that attitude, it will be much harder for dopers to exist as people will not hesitate to out them.

I think you stand a better chance of trying to stop a speeding 18-wheeler with your bare hands than changing the attitude of using PEDs in sport.
 
Honestly, you underestimate how far people will go for money, fame, and to win at something that they have sweat and bled their entire lives to excel at. If becoming #1 in the world is your dream, you have built your entire life around trying to achieve that dream and the difference between achieving that dream or not is a needle in the ***, which is something you have no way of knowing if the other guys are doing, than for some the choice is simple.

I'm glad I participate in a niche sport where there is drug testing but also almost no $$$$ to be made. I can tell you that if big money was involved I'd probably quit because the drug use would become rampant, testing or no testing.
 
The USADA guidelines put a statute of limitations on their investigations at 8 years. With Lance they went back as far as 15 years.
I thought this was kosher because of this:
In the case of Eddy Hellebuyck (you can see a more in depth discussion of the case here), the arbitration panel determined that in cases in which "fraudulent concealment" such as perjury exists, the USADA can toll the statute of limitations.
source: http://www.slowtwitch.com/Features/Armstrong_s_Coda_Through_a_Legal_Prism_3016.html
They found dirt on a lot of other riders (foreseeable since a vast majority of them are dirty) but offered them clemency in return for their testimony against Lance. I think when you offer someone a deal like that it brings with it some doubt in regards to their honesty.
As far as I know, all the cyclists that admitted to doping through their testimony against lance did receive sanctions (although I think they were shorted than the standard 2 year bans). Apparently Lance was also offered this deal but he declined.
 
I'm glad I participate in a niche sport where there is drug testing but also almost no $$$$ to be made. I can tell you that if big money was involved I'd probably quit because the drug use would become rampant, testing or no testing.
What sport? what kind of testing is done?
Unfortunately the current attitude towards PEDs doesn't appear to require large financial gains. This is indicated by the recent busts in AMATEUR cycling for example, so I really doubt your sport is immune.
 
I'm talking about Natural Bodybuilding........let's not start a "is it a sport" debate right now though, not really in that kinda mood lol. I've had to pee in a cup before and the sample was sent to some lab that supposedly the IOC uses too. They usually just test the winners though.

EDIT: I'm sure Natural Bodybuilding is not IMMUNE but I can be somewhat competitive without juicing so that's good enough for me.
 
none of the former teammates that testified against Lance care about the sanctions they recieved, careers were over for them anyway. They may get a book published, but who cares about bitter old team mates?

I've followed cycling for years, and the enhancements go back decades. Big deal. I'm actually glad they got the meds figured out so 20 yr olds stopped having heart attacks.

I'd love to watch a 4.3 second 100m sprint at the olympics. Let em go.
 
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