Is Tuition Really THAT Unreasonable in Ontario?

[Amazon]

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This is after just over a year. I only make $11/hr at my job, and during school can only work about 8 hours there. On top of that, my rent is $475 a month, plus food for me and my cats. Because of the money, I most likely will not be able to ride next year, which sucks. Oh, and that statement doesn't include the books, which are over $1000

 

[crankcall]

One of my life goals was to have both kids graduate from whatever they wanted with zero student debt so they could get on with life, one is done the other is 1/2 way. They both held part time jobs and pitched in a bit, so they also learned the value of a buck.

Personally i think tuition should cost a crapload to keep people that haven't "found themselves" from clogging schools. I sat with just too many sociology and poly sci tards that will end up at Canada Post and dont need 4 yrs post secondary to drive a white cube van.

 

[RetroGrouch]

At least Ontario's Universities are subsidized. You should see what Americans pay.

 

[matthew]

I buy all my books online and I buy older editions (11th if the current is 13th) and I always find the books I need for less than $20, even if they're thick hardcover books.

 

[jc100]

I got paid to go to school. One of the last to do so. Worked well because people studied what interested them, not what they thought would pay the bills. Enthusiastic students = good students in my book and those kinds of people are good to have around.

 

[CruisnGrrl]

At least Ontario's Universities are subsidized. You should see what Americans pay.

depends if it's a state university or not, comparing notes with friends from stateside state universities tend to be on par with canadian universities (providing you're from that state).

 

[Dr.Manhattan]

 

[caboose56]

Does that program include a placement? 'Cause engineering placements pay really well nowadays. And with all the placements you do before you graduate, it looks pretty good on you when you graduate. I have buddies working for various big-name companies (google, canadian space agency, RIM, etc.) as part of their placements and they're making good bank. Even the ones at mid-tier engineering placements are still making decent money.

I'll admit that it's a big increase, but engineering's also becoming even more competitive than it already is. So you're paying a premium for it, no?

Western doesn't do mandatory co-op thing that Waterloo (and i think Windsor?) does. There are optional ones. I did a 12 month internship with John Deere Forestry in Product Validation and Verification after 3rd year but they announced that the plant was closing 6 months into my term. Super.

I believe that the 4 month placements do very little to actually teach the students anything other than office politics and TLA (three letter acronym) systems. I've been in my current job for 14 months now and still feel utterly lost sometimes. In a technical field like engineering you can't really get into anything serious in 4 months... and even in the 12 months I spent at John Deere all I was fed was ***** work.

There are more engineers in Ontario right now than the industry can support. I worked at Inglis Cycle for a year after graduating because the job market was (and still is) garbage. I moved back to Burlington and worked at National Steelcar for 2.5 years, I did not enjoy that job. I took a pretty large pay cut to move back to London and I'm making less now than I was 4 years ago. I'm still a contract worker so I get no benefits, no bonus, no rrsp program. I made more money building fences and decks as a summer job than I do now. The current state of the industry is such that junior engineers are underpaid. There is sweet **** all I can do about it, if I don't want to do the job there are 10 other recent grads that will. Actually there are probably 1000. But I have been thinking about leaving the industry altogether.

 

[CrazyKell]

I went to university both in Canada and Stateside (private college so big bucks).

I'm still paying off student loans and not working in the field which I trained for because the job market sucks for that field right now (as it does for a lot of others).

I envy those people that had university paid for them by means other than student loans. They were given a gift that they may never fully realize or understand its importance.

But where in god's name are these $15/hr student jobs? People who have worked all their lives, with university educations, are taking those jobs because the economy sucks.

Of course it's do-able to go to school with a little bit of hard work and saving. But the OP's figures are wildly inaccurate, as has been shown several times in this thread.

And co-op? Don't even get me started. When working on my undergrad I originally was admitted into the highly competitive and sought after co-op program. One of the placements offered was working at a movie theatre serving popcorn. Seriously? Are you ****ing kidding me? I left the co-op program right then and there. **** that.

 

[invictus43]

I envy those people that had university paid for them by means other than student loans. They were given a gift that they may never fully realize or understand its importance.

It wasn't a gift..I worked damn hard to pay my tuition and expenses. And I made do with what I had.

Tuition is a balancing act. University is free in Germany..it also takes, on average, 7.4 years to graduate from an undergrad degree program there. In the US, it's 4.1 years. Germany has to import professionals in certain fields because graduation is so slow for some fields. University becomes a career. People who pay are motivated. Some people thought I'd be a good teacher..I said I'd only teach college or higher because at least those people are motivated to be there!!

I think an educated population is important to be globally competitive in higher level occupations. However, I also don't think we need 1.7 million doctors in this country so you really can't expect to have a great job no matter what you train for. There is a job market and people should at least consider their employment prospects at the end of the day.

 

[CrazyKell]

It wasn't a gift..I worked damn hard to pay my tuition and expenses. And I made do with what I had.

Excuse me, but I think you need to read what I wrote again. People who had their tuition paid for them were given a gift.

 

[stormcat]

Has anyone mentioned that it's not necessarily the cost of tuition that's the problem, but the cost of course materials? I may have 'only' paid $5k/year for college, but I was shelling out $200+/week for materials in my graphic design program. In university, some of my course materials (books, etc) were upwards of $500 per course for each semester. At the graduate level, we were expected to present at conferences, the costs of which were not subsidized by the university. I've shelled out $3,000-$5,000/each out of my own pocket to attend and present at these conferences. And then of course there are the costs of belonging to professional affiliations to bulk up ones CV in the desperate hope of landing a job at the end.

All my years of university and I am not working in my research field. The pay is terrible, and there are no jobs available. The jobs that are available expect you to donate your time. *sigh*

 

[caboose56]

Is tuition really THAT bad? I did some calculations and on a bad year, it'll be 8k a year including textbooks. Minimum wage (10.25) for 20 hours a week, for the rest of the year will earn someone roughly 9000 dollars after tax returns and all that crap for students. Now, you factor in that minimum wage isn't even mandatory - there are plenty of student jobs that pay 12/hour at the very least. That comes to around $11000 dollars after tax returns. So that gives students more than enough spending money. If they want even more spending money, they can find plenty of jobs that'll pay 15/hour. Or they could even find a higher-paying job, work less, and still afford this "insane tuition" (which, by the way, is 10000 - ~50000 a year in the United States).

On top of all this, it seems like people forget that OSAP is a privilege; not something that we're entitled to. If you can't work and focus on school at the same time, then the government's nice enough to give you an interest-free until you graduate. I'd even go so far as saying that being able to go to a university in another city isn't something that we're entitled to get a loan for.

WTF gives? Are students just whiny little babies, or am I missing something here?

I wasn't going to respond directly to you but now I have changed my mind because your numbers are way off.

How many potential university students live within walking or bussing distance of the university they want to go to? How many of those potential students that DO live close enough to a university want to take a program that is offered at that university? How many of those potential students that do live close enough to a university and want to take a program that is offered there wil get accepted into that program at that university? I applied to 4 universities. Western, Mac, Waterloo and UofT. I was accepted to all 4 but Waterloo and UofT offered me different programs, not the program I wanted to take.

The odds of being able to stay at home to attend post secondary education are not great. For most that are able to, they will still likely need a car go get to/from school. A few thousand dollars for a fairly reliable puddle-jumper plus insurance, gas, maintenance, on-campus parking pass (not cheap), plates, etc, etc. At least a few thousand dollars a year just to operate the car.

A lot of students are not able to attend a school in the city of their choice, a lot of students have to attend a school in another city becuase that is the school that offers the program they want or that is the school that accepted them. I could have stayed at home if I went to Mac but I would have been commuting 45 minutes each way every day. Add that to an already busy engineering class schedule and it doesn't really leave a lot of time for a PT job.

Having to live away from home is an unavoidable reality for many students. Now you have rent, food, utilities, etc being added to your expenses athough you likely won't need a car. You're lucky if you can get away with spending less than $600/mo for all that. Now you're on the hook for an extra $7200/yr. I worked 10 hours a week in a parking lot booth making $11/hr. If I were to have worked 20 hours a week I would have failed a few courses and required an extra year of university. But let's say, for the purposes of your argument, that one is able to work 20 hours a week at $12/hr. That works out to about $12,000/yr as you mention which falls about $3000 short of covering a students tuition plus living expenses.

Some students accumulate a lot more debt than they need to. They could work PT but choose not to. However, you are foolish to think that getting through university without going into debt is as easy as you describe.

 

[chiller]

Interesting ... I got decent paying summer co-ops that paid me in the range of $20-25 / hour... AND this was in the 90's, so the jobs are out there if you are 'good' ... going to get a philosphy degree doesn't really help you out in the 20 / hour dept... but if you are going into a field that is 'booming' then your going to be fine. yes i had some student loans to pay after i graduated but I got my first job and was living at home after graduation (was away not living at home for school for 7 years) and i got all my loans paid off within 6 months

To me, I don't see why if it worked for me they can't do something themselves. And I didn't have to skimp too much. Sure I bought used text books, and I lived on Mac and Cheese and whatever was on sale at the grocery store. BUT I also had a car and bike to insure as well for me to ride and drive. These allowed me to release the stress from all the time in classes. Not including apartment rental, etc. etc.

 

[caboose56]

Excuse me, but I think you need to read what I wrote again. People who had their tuition paid for them were given a gift.

I think that he thinks you meant paid out of one's own pocket. I think that you meant being paid by one's parents (or something similar).

 

[caboose56]

Interesting ... I got decent paying summer co-ops that paid me in the range of $20-25 / hour... AND this was in the 90's, so the jobs are out there if you are 'good' ... going to get a philosphy degree doesn't really help you out in the 20 / hour dept... but if you are going into a field that is 'booming' then your going to be fine. yes i had some student loans to pay after i graduated but I got my first job and was living at home after graduation (was away not living at home for school for 7 years) and i got all my loans paid off within 6 months

To me, I don't see why if it worked for me they can't do something themselves.

Can you please provide a few examples of fields that are "booming"?

 

[invictus43]

Excuse me, but I think you need to read what I wrote again. People who had their tuition paid for them were given a gift.

My mistake! Sorry Kell!! It would indeed be a gift. I would have less scars and arthritis in that case!!

 

[CrazyKell]

Interesting ... etc. etc.

I find your grammar interesting for a university graduate.

 

[CrazyKell]

My mistake! Sorry Kell!! It would indeed be a gift. I would have less scars and arthritis in that case!!

I thought you just misunderstood.

I made a lot of mistakes in my undergrad years. I partied way more than I should have. I bought things I didn't need. But I don't hold anyone else responsible for that. My loans are my responsibility. Although, I think it's a bit whacked to send 18 year olds out into the world with thousands of dollars, no credit history, and no real responsibility (generalizing here). That's a recipe for disaste.r

 

[chiller]

I find your grammar interesting for a university graduate.

meh ... i just type on a forum with no reason to fix the grammar, who's grading me ? you ? are you paying me to have to think about it ? haha

actually I graduated after 7 yrs with 3 degrees

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