I'm bored. Oil thread please.
Is it necessary to get a 400cc motorcycle with abs?
- Thread starter LilTerry
- Start date
With enough practice threshold braking IS instinct. That's why we practice. A rookie WILL grab the front brake for all he's worth, HOPEFULLY a well practiced rider will not.
To the original question; ABS brakes are a god send to new riders. New riders have more than enough on their plate trying to stay alive while learning how to ride. ABS makes a new rider 95% as good on the brakes as a well seasoned rider(actually my years of local club racing tells me the vast majority of riders have NO CLUE on braking. I am a mid pack rider BUT I out brake most racers). So a new rider doesn't have to know what threshold braking means, the bike does it for him.
The problem with ABS, and traction control and stability control, and the like, is when riders/drivers start to rely on them... and studies have shown that is already the case. ABS has brought us fewer collisions, but the collisions we still get have gone up in price, and injuries.
A rider that can brake at threshold consistently will stop in a shorter distance than any rider on an ABS equipped bike. There is no discussion about it, that is a fact. If you know how ABS works, you know that is true.
The issue IS that VERY few riders can do that, maybe 1%... so that means ABS will benefit 99% of riders/drivers.
I have never owned a bike with ABS, don't want a bike with ABS... and I tucked the front end and went down twice this year... still don't want ABS.
...but I did get to ride a BMW with out riggers. It was at Shannonville in the '90s. BMW had a "press" release of the NEW ABS system. You were supposed to ride the bike with out riggers, slide around, then get on the bike with ABS and stop with confidence. Me and Pedzi were just trying to flip the bike with out riggers. We were having a GREAT time. They asked us to leave.
Seems you need more practice.
Trials
Well-known member
You picked a good one, that's actually one of the easier cars to ride over ?
I was closer to sliding underneath it, the bike having low-sided first ... Just to be clear, there was NO modulating the brake here, and I still think that was the correct choice under the circumstances. It takes time to establish the balance of brake pressure needed to avoid front wheel lock-up, even for the most experienced riders who claim to be able to do it. It isn't even a constant number ... it takes time for the suspension to settle and transfer load onto the front tire, and that's on top of potential surface variations. If you slightly under-guess the required amount of brake pressure on that particular surface that you happen to be on at the moment, you hit the object faster than you could have, which is bad. If you slightly over-guess, then the front wheel starts locking or the rear wheel starts coming up (both, in my case) and now you have to deal with that. I had maybe 1 second between it becoming apparent that the car was crossing my path, and hitting it. Hammering the brake, and getting as much speed scrubbed off as possible as soon as possible despite the front wheel locking and low-siding the bike (having probably knocked 30 km/h off its speed first) minimised the impact.
If this were to have happened at a higher speed, then it becomes even more important to knock speed off ASAP, and you can get more braking done with the front tire on the ground than you can with the bike sliding on its side, i.e. before it low-sides. Even if "theoretically under ideal circumstances" it is possible to brake harder without ABS than with, that situation of having a car across your path is not those ideal circumstances. 99% of riders will not be able to do it. Despite 30 years of experience and 25 years roadracing, I still place myself in that 99%. The electronics can react within milliseconds and do it every time.
On the racetrack I know what's going to happen in a braking zone at the end of the main straightaway because I was just there a minute or two before.
And by the way, there is a world of difference between the old-design ABS systems that could only switch brake pressure on or off, and the new-design systems that can variably modulate it. Some of the cheaper models or older designs are probably still using the old-school designs. My beast of a bike has KIBS, and it just plain stops, no chattering or other nonsense. It can get tripped up by washboard rough surfaces, but the probability of having to do a panic-stop on a washboard surface is low enough that I'd still take the tradeoff.
If this were to have happened at a higher speed, then it becomes even more important to knock speed off ASAP, and you can get more braking done with the front tire on the ground than you can with the bike sliding on its side, i.e. before it low-sides. Even if "theoretically under ideal circumstances" it is possible to brake harder without ABS than with, that situation of having a car across your path is not those ideal circumstances. 99% of riders will not be able to do it. Despite 30 years of experience and 25 years roadracing, I still place myself in that 99%. The electronics can react within milliseconds and do it every time.
On the racetrack I know what's going to happen in a braking zone at the end of the main straightaway because I was just there a minute or two before.
And by the way, there is a world of difference between the old-design ABS systems that could only switch brake pressure on or off, and the new-design systems that can variably modulate it. Some of the cheaper models or older designs are probably still using the old-school designs. My beast of a bike has KIBS, and it just plain stops, no chattering or other nonsense. It can get tripped up by washboard rough surfaces, but the probability of having to do a panic-stop on a washboard surface is low enough that I'd still take the tradeoff.
Trials
Well-known member
Yes, not all ABS is created equal, they are also limited by the common denominator :/ your brakes, so you better have good ones or that is scarcely an upgrade.
The BMW K bikes were among the first if not The first to make ABS an option, the bike requires a larger battery just to assist with powering the 2 huge compressors that reside on each side of the bike, it didn't need all that just to on or off.
Riceburner
Well-known member
30 years street riding across the continent. Would I take ABS? Yes. Just haven't so far.
I've had it on bikes for the last 10 years and there was one incident I was glad I had it and another ... it was useful ..maybe not entirely necessary. New rider especially in the GTA?? ..must have.
