Increase Ontario 400-series Highway Speed Limit

[Shaman]

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They're not perfect but the public votes them in and the public can vote them out, and so there is a measure of public accountability for their actions.

Oh, please. This is the cry of politicians everywhere. But it's not true.. the human race has progressed beyond this argument - we want fair laws, we want real representation and we want proper spending - AND WE WANT IT NOW. It should be painfully obvious to anyone with an IQ above 100 that the governments we have do not represent the majority. If you care to disagree, you can guess my opinion of you...

If you think that things would be better without government, then by all means you should make tracks for Somalia as quickly as possible. You might want to take along fans of "natural selection" with you as well. After a year, report back on how good things are there for you, assuming you are able to.

You really love your wookie and straw men argument. Who said that they didn't want ANY governance or laws? Nobody, that's who. You lose again, Chewbacca.

 

[OpenGambit]

I agree with you, there is no reason why the onus should not be on the person doing the licenced activity.

The law also agrees with you =D

I think you have it backwards. For all those reasons you mentioned, the onus should be on the driver to leave a healthy margin of safety. In your way of thinking, truckers shouldn't need to leave a larger gap to the vehicle in front, or train crossings shouldn't need warnings to drivers. You're basically suggesting that "might makes right". I'm suggesting that with greater power comes greater responsibility.

 

[TimC]

this "lower the limit" farce will go nowhere

imo...it's just a counterpunch to the "raise the limit" crowd from last week

the cost to change all the signage alone would be a staggering amount....so it is not happening because we can't afford it...end of story

and from my unscientific-survey-of-one, as a guy that lives in the GTA and for 20+ years, commutes downtown daily via my feet and the TTC subway and does not own a cellphone of any sort....the blackberry has turned pedestrians into freakin zombies....I nearly run these idiots over while I'm just walking on the same sidewalk

if pedestrians are getting smoked because they can't lift their faces away from their precious little screens then speed limits aren't the issue

 

[eastcoast_gsx]

if pedestrians are getting smoked because they can't lift their faces away from their precious little screens then speed limits aren't the issue

I saw a teenager run head down into a Stop sign once, he was trying to cut the sidewalk corner without looking up, after he hit it he looked up at the sign with a major "duh" moment... I was on a peddle bike and almost fell over from laughing so hard.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

I agree with you, there is no reason why the onus should not be on the person doing the licenced activity.

The law also agrees with you =D

While the other people involved in such incidents are not licensed, their actions are also governed by law. As they seem to be the ones most often found at fault, and have the most to lose, one would think placing a heavier burden than is currently done by media and pandering politicians would be a no-brainer.

 

[TimC]

I saw a teenager run head down into a Stop sign once, he was trying to cut the sidewalk corner without looking up, after he hit it he looked up at the sign with a major "duh" moment... I was on a peddle bike and almost fell over from laughing so hard.

yup...this is what is walking around

[video=youtube;w69s6Yhba5Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w69s6Yhba5Q&feature=fvst[/video]

 

[OpenGambit]

While the other people involved in such incidents are not licensed, their actions are also governed by law. As they seem to be the ones most often found at fault, and have the most to lose, one would think placing a heavier burden than is currently done by media and pandering politicians would be a no-brainer.

I am not saying they have no reasonsiblity, but all I am saying is that from a legal perspective, the duty of care goes one way, and fault of the pedestrian is handled through contributory negligence concepts.

I can't control whats in the media and what politicans say, but in the end, nothing they say matters, the law is what you get, and its pretty fair.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

I am not saying they have no reasonsiblity, but all I am saying is that from a legal perspective, the duty of care goes one way, and fault of the pedestrian is handled through contributory negligence concepts.

I can't control whats in the media and what politicans say, but in the end, nothing they say matters, the law is what you get, and its pretty fair.

The law may be pretty fair, but time and again we have been shown that legislators are not.

 

[OpenGambit]

ya but why would you care about that tho? there is nothing that metro toronto politicans can do to remotely affect the state of the law in this area. They are just talking trash, and it should be given the attention it deserves.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

ya but why would you care about that tho? there is nothing that metro toronto politicans can do to remotely affect the state of the law in this area. They are just talking trash, and it should be given the attention it deserves.

They can change speed limits, making it even more difficult for personal vehicles to make it around this city. They can put in more stupid speed bumps on less traveled roads, that don't have a problem with fast drivers and aren't the areas pointed out as danger areas in the first place, causing damage to vehicles and acting as an annoyance in general. They can eliminate right turn lanes and second left turn lanes, as they have at Yonge and Lakeshore already, making it virtually impossible to make turns at anything later than 6:00am.

And all to solve a problem that needs to be flipped on its head, in order to be viewed properly. Don't dismiss the mess that Civic government can make of your life.

 

[ZX600]

Yes, it's revenue collection. A number of credible independent studies show that the proper highway speed is somewhere around 120-130km/h which is where a) the brain is fully engaged and .

The most important piece on this thread IMO

 

[EngineerJoe]

the cost to change all the signage alone would be a staggering amount....so it is not happening because we can't afford it...end of story

How dare you put a price on safety!

and from my unscientific-survey-of-one, as a guy that lives in the GTA and for 20+ years, commutes downtown daily via my feet and the TTC subway and does not own a cellphone of any sort....the blackberry has turned pedestrians into freakin zombies....I nearly run these idiots over while I'm just walking on the same sidewalk

Reminds me of the Rick Mercer BlackBerry skit they did years ago.

 

[viper84737]

I think you will need to change the mentality of the people long before this can happen. Right now we have too many old school politicians in power, and they are extremely out of touch with modern society. Until that generation dies off and is replaced by modern, Nintendo-playing, quick-thinking people, society here will stagnate and be more like the 1970s/1980s than one in which actual tangible advancement takes place. It may not be the case, but I see it as the only hope there is.

 

[nfq]

How dare you put a price on safety!


Reminds me of the Rick Mercer BlackBerry skit they did years ago.

[video=youtube;GdzUZDDi5aM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdzUZDDi5aM[/video]

Classic!

 

[Rob MacLennan]

I think you will need to change the mentality of the people long before this can happen. Right now we have too many old school politicians in power, and they are extremely out of touch with modern society. Until that generation dies off and is replaced by modern, Nintendo-playing, quick-thinking people, society here will stagnate and be more like the 1970s/1980s than one in which actual tangible advancement takes place. It may not be the case, but I see it as the only hope there is.

IF ONLY things would stagnate to '70s/'80s levels. Then you would have a transit system, that was worth something.

 

[Zag]

Hearing this news on tv since morning that some stupid doctors in GTA are proposing 40kmh max on all streets to minimize accidents. I guess they are those who cross a road with cramps in their necks or learning to ride a tricycle or want to help opp to earn more. Morons. IMO.
Sorry if already discussed above.

 

[turbodish]

While the other people involved in such incidents are not licensed, their actions are also governed by law. As they seem to be the ones most often found at fault, and have the most to lose, one would think placing a heavier burden than is currently done by media and pandering politicians would be a no-brainer.

Are pedestrians and cyclists really the ones most often found at fault?

This data is from 2010.

Collisions involving pedestrians http://www.toronto.ca/transportation/publications/brochures/2011_ped.pdf
1506 total collisions less 117 incidents with unknown driver action and 179 parking lot incidents
leaves 1210 pedestrian/vehicle collisions, of which 775 involved a vehicle hitting a pedestrian who had the right of way at an intersection or crosswalk, or the vehicle hitting a pedestrian on the sidewalk or road shoulder. That's 64% vehicle at fault.

Data concerning bicycle collisions yields a similar outcome with respect to whether a driver involved in a collision with a bicycle was operating the vehicle properly properly or not. http://www.toronto.ca/transportation/publications/brochures/2011_bike.pdf

 

[Trice87]

As much as I want the limits to increase... it's not a good idea, 75% of the people in Toronto can't even handle the 100km/h limit I don't think increasing it will help. Plus it will cost us tax payers more in the long run, for more health care costs and what not...

 

[caboose56]

Are pedestrians and cyclists really the ones most often found at fault?

This data is from 2010.

Collisions involving pedestrians http://www.toronto.ca/transportation/publications/brochures/2011_ped.pdf
1506 total collisions less 117 incidents with unknown driver action and 179 parking lot incidents
leaves 1210 pedestrian/vehicle collisions, of which 775 involved a vehicle hitting a pedestrian who had the right of way at an intersection or crosswalk, or the vehicle hitting a pedestrian on the sidewalk or road shoulder. That's 64% vehicle at fault.

Data concerning bicycle collisions yields a similar outcome with respect to whether a driver involved in a collision with a bicycle was operating the vehicle properly properly or not. http://www.toronto.ca/transportation/publications/brochures/2011_bike.pdf

Do you think speed had anything to do with those accidents? Or is it more likely that the driver just wasn't paying attention and pulled into or through the crosswalk (likely while making a turn) before checking for pedestrians? Likely at speeds well below 40km/hr.

As much as I want the limits to increase... it's not a good idea, 75% of the people in Toronto can't even handle the 100km/h limit I don't think increasing it will help. Plus it will cost us tax payers more in the long run, for more health care costs and what not...

You are aware that there is quite a lot of Ontario outside the GTA..... right??

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Are pedestrians and cyclists really the ones most often found at fault?

This data is from 2010.

Collisions involving pedestrians http://www.toronto.ca/transportation/publications/brochures/2011_ped.pdf
1506 total collisions less 117 incidents with unknown driver action and 179 parking lot incidents
leaves 1210 pedestrian/vehicle collisions, of which 775 involved a vehicle hitting a pedestrian who had the right of way at an intersection or crosswalk, or the vehicle hitting a pedestrian on the sidewalk or road shoulder. That's 64% vehicle at fault.

Data concerning bicycle collisions yields a similar outcome with respect to whether a driver involved in a collision with a bicycle was operating the vehicle properly properly or not. http://www.toronto.ca/transportation/publications/brochures/2011_bike.pdf

So you're basing your conclusions on what the trend obviously indicates was an anomalous year?

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