Hypothetical situation - lane split, door prize

[Rob MacLennan]

Majority's opinion:

Lanesplitting is bad, even the riders think so, and will crucify you if you do. Go to Europe or Asia for nicer people and riders.

Actually it sounds to me like most people are being pretty realistic in their answers. I obviously missed your initial post, before you edited it, but I can surmise what it said. Barring proof of malice, which would be damned hard to prove in most cases, the ultimate question becomes, "But for which action would this not have occurred?" The predicating illegal action would be lane splitting, but for which the incident would not have been possible. It isn't a matter of 'crucifying' or 'being allowed to cause bodily harm', but one of fault.

 

[Kiloohm]

New to riding in Toronto (just moved here) but my experience in Montreal is that a lot of people are lane splitting. More and more every year I must say.

However, the traffic patterns are totally different as well. It's common for Montreal to have the traffic completely stopped for long minutes in which case lane splitting is relatively safe. What I see here is that traffic can be slow (and for long long stretches) but it's generally moving.

I got stock last year on Champlain Bridge in Montreal for 45 minutes in heavy pouring rain, traffic completely stopped due to construction (those orange pylons are a landmark in Montreal) and should have lane split.

Nevertheless, I'm afraid of drivers here and wouldn't risk it.

 

[silverbullet132]

Are we talking riding between moving cars or riding in the parking lane (moving cars only on one side)?

Riding in the parking lane is legal, between two live lanes is not. From what I remember, if you get a door prize while riding in the parking lane it is a not at fault due to driver not checking surroundings etc.

 

[油井緋色]

Actually it sounds to me like most people are being pretty realistic in their answers. I obviously missed your initial post, before you edited it, but I can surmise what it said. Barring proof of malice, which would be damned hard to prove in most cases, the ultimate question becomes, "But for which action would this not have occurred?" The predicating illegal action would be lane splitting, but for which the incident would not have been possible. It isn't a matter of 'crucifying' or 'being allowed to cause bodily harm', but one of fault.

This hypothetical situation occurred to me when a "friend" was talking about how he saw a rider split past him on the DVP a while ago during gridlock. He told me "next time I see that happen, I'm going to open the door and say **** you when he splatters on it". I took it offensively because I am, after all, a rider. I found the hostility and intent to kill really unnecessary.

Contrast this with the time when I knocked down (moped rider) in Taiwan because I did not look before I opened the door. I immediately started apologizing and thanked God that I have a rich uncle to pay for any damages that I stupidly caused.

Two very different attitudes but regardless of country, isn't it always wrong to hurt people intentionally? I do see your point though, just surprised at how few riders realize that quite a few cagers out there would intentionally break your legs and arms because you were getting from point A to point B faster than them and would have safely had they not tried to kill you.

Are we talking riding between moving cars or riding in the parking lane (moving cars only on one side)?

Riding in the parking lane is legal, between two live lanes is not. From what I remember, if you get a door prize while riding in the parking lane it is a not at fault due to driver not checking surroundings etc.

Stopped traffic, red light.

 

[jeffjones]

Stopped traffic, red light.

If your talking about attempted murder for someone filtering at a red light, How fast are you expecting them to be going?

 

[killerkeith]

If your talking about attempted murder for someone filtering at a red light, How fast are you expecting them to be going?

He's got a new GSXR 750. If your not doing 100 mph at all times, breaking every law possible, you're just another d-bag with a bike.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

This hypothetical situation occurred to me when a "friend" was talking about how he saw a rider split past him on the DVP a while ago during gridlock. He told me "next time I see that happen, I'm going to open the door and say **** you when he splatters on it". I took it offensively because I am, after all, a rider. I found the hostility and intent to kill really unnecessary.

Contrast this with the time when I knocked down (moped rider) in Taiwan because I did not look before I opened the door. I immediately started apologizing and thanked God that I have a rich uncle to pay for any damages that I stupidly caused.

Two very different attitudes but regardless of country, isn't it always wrong to hurt people intentionally? I do see your point though, just surprised at how few riders realize that quite a few cagers out there would intentionally break your legs and arms because you were getting from point A to point B faster than them and would have safely had they not tried to kill you.

I suggest that you recognize that the hostility is there and don't do the illegal act then.

 

[Bermuda]

...just surprised at how few riders realize that quite a few cagers out there would intentionally break your legs and arms because you were getting from point A to point B faster than them and would have safely had they not tried to kill you.

I think it's quite the opposite. Most riders DO realize how malicious (or, in likely just as many cases, clueless) drivers are, and for that reason will concede that lane splitting is not the best idea. Better safe than sorry.

 

[nfq]

I think it's quite the opposite. Most riders DO realize how malicious (or, in likely just as many cases, clueless) drivers are, and for that reason will concede that lane splitting is not the best idea. Better safe than sorry.

Yessir.

If they don't expect you to be in places you shouldn't be in the first place, you can't blame anyone but yourself. Arguments of it being safer and traffic flows better and it's done in other parts of the world are all fine and dandy, but that doesn't change the fact that it's not practiced here and it's not encouraged for that very reason. The absent minded drivers can barely remember which pedal makes the car go, and which makes it stop.

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Yessir.

If they don't expect you to be in places you shouldn't be in the first place, you can't blame anyone but yourself. Arguments of it being safer and traffic flows better and it's done in other parts of the world are all fine and dandy, but that doesn't change the fact that it's not practiced here and it's not encouraged for that very reason. The absent minded drivers can barely remember which pedal makes the car go, and which makes it stop.

I would use the term 'distracted' rather than 'absent minded', as the lack of memory and attention tends to be willful.

Also, as a friend of mine frequently reminds me, we have a remarkably small number of collisions given our volume of traffic. That's because it tends to be the unusual, that results in collisions. As you mentioned, lane splitting motorcycles would be unusual.

 

[V-Tom]

...Two very different attitudes but regardless of country, isn't it always wrong to hurt people intentionally? I do see your point though, just surprised at how few riders realize that quite a few cagers out there would intentionally break your legs and arms because you were getting from point A to point B faster than them and would have safely had they not tried to kill you.
...

I know it is true in many places, but I have noticed that in Canada in particular the general population hates when other people get ahead of them. This goes for driving, but also line ups (movie, at airports, etc,) financially, etc.

Our well known Canadian "politeness" ends if anyone else gets ahead of us.

..Tom

 

[spray____]

the general population hates when other people get ahead of them.

To be fair, most of the ways people "get ahead" are by being an *******. Whether that's driving recklessly, cutting in a TTC line, or showing up late for their flight and getting rushed through, that all qualifies as being an ******* in my books. When you see someone putting their wants ahead of respect for those around them, I think you're entitled and expected to be enraged.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that we're all so polite, and we expect others to be as well.

 

[油井緋色]

To be fair, most of the ways people "get ahead" are by being an *******. Whether that's driving recklessly, cutting in a TTC line, or showing up late for their flight and getting rushed through, that all qualifies as being an ******* in my books. When you see someone putting their wants ahead of respect for those around them, I think you're entitled and expected to be enraged.

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that we're all so polite, and we expect others to be as well.

I don't think we're polite at all. Majority of Canadians hate Torontians, look up Google to see a few examples lol

 

[Rob MacLennan]

I don't think we're polite at all. Majority of Canadians hate Torontians, look up Google to see a few examples lol

I would have to agree. It might have been true in the past. In fact I can tell you without reservation that, when I was a child, Torontonians were incredibly and almost universally polite. Today, however, I think that the much lauded Canadian politeness vanishes anywhere within 100 Kms of a major population centre.

That doesn't mean that you make it any better by making the situation worse though. Two negatives generally only result in a positive, in high school math class.

 

[unoR]

Majority's opinion:

Lanesplitting is bad, even the riders think so, and will crucify you if you do. Go to Europe or Asia for nicer people and riders.

lolwut

 

[ddusseld]

It ends when people get ahead by "cheating". Butting in line, lane splitting etc are all really nothing more then "cheating" to get ahead.

I know it is true in many places, but I have noticed that in Canada in particular the general population hates when other people get ahead of them. This goes for driving, but also line ups (movie, at airports, etc,) financially, etc.

Our well known Canadian "politeness" ends if anyone else gets ahead of us.

..Tom

 

[imnothng]

It ends when people get ahead by "cheating". Butting in line, lane splitting etc are all really nothing more then "cheating" to get ahead.

Are you for real? You think lane splitting is the same as butting in line? Lane splitting doesn't put other people out because it doesn't affect them. If anything lane splitting frees up room on the roadway which helps cars move along.

What's the point though, this has been discussed to death.

Edit- I just thought of something. If I buy less at the grocery store and use the express lane, is that cheating? The vast majority of people in cars COULD ride a bike if they chose to, just like you COULD buy less to move faster at the store.

 

[油井緋色]

Are you for real? You think lane splitting is the same as butting in line? Lane splitting doesn't put other people out because it doesn't affect them. If anything lane splitting frees up room on the roadway which helps cars move along.

What's the point though, this has been discussed to death.

Edit- I just thought of something. If I buy less at the grocery store and use the express lane, is that cheating? The vast majority of people in cars COULD ride a bike if they chose to, just like you COULD buy less to move faster at the store.

Don't bother.

I was thinking about posting something about false logic, critical thinking, and a few videos/articles with relation to lane splitting, congestion, and rear end fatal accidents but...

What the **** is the point?

 

[jeffjones]

Are you for real? You think lane splitting is the same as butting in line? Lane splitting doesn't put other people out because it doesn't affect them. If anything lane splitting frees up room on the roadway which helps cars move along.

What's the point though, this has been discussed to death.

So then you wouldn't mind if you were on the one side of the lane and a car lane split you to get ahead right?
Its not holding you up, Its just making the traffic faster?

Oh ya, Its only fair when it doesn't happen to you.

Edit- I just thought of something. If I buy less at the grocery store and use the express lane, is that cheating? The vast majority of people in cars COULD ride a bike if they chose to, just like you COULD buy less to move faster at the store.

You could buy less.... BUT that would mean that you would have to go back twice to get what you need, In turn making more people wait for you.....

In order to use that example you would have to say maybe buy 30 items BUT ring them through 10 for each transaction to stay in the express lane. Yes that would be cheating.
It would kind of be like if the vast majority rode bikes and people were splitting but SLOWER than you, what are you going to do? Should they have to move ove even though they are going faster than everyone else on the road?

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Are you for real? You think lane splitting is the same as butting in line? Lane splitting doesn't put other people out because it doesn't affect them. If anything lane splitting frees up room on the roadway which helps cars move along.

What's the point though, this has been discussed to death.

Edit- I just thought of something. If I buy less at the grocery store and use the express lane, is that cheating? The vast majority of people in cars COULD ride a bike if they chose to, just like you COULD buy less to move faster at the store.

You aren't breaking any rules when you get in the express lane, now are you? You are when lane split. Therein lies the difference.

And yes, it has been discussed to death, and this thread offers nothing new. Proponents ogf lane splitting want to do it whether legal or not, while many of those opposed to it are only opposed while it actually IS illegal, because it is illegal.