How to get 600v

[Soulcatcher668]

One other thing to be aware of if you have never dealt with 600V before.

It is not like 120...... you will not just get a light zap of a reminder if you accidentally touch the wrong thing.

 

[nobbie48]

I have seen sites with huge labeling about multiple power sources. I doubt there is a code limit if things are properly labeled and identified. In this case, I suspect he'd only have one service.

Given the costs involved from hydro one and on site, I won't be surprised if this isn't financially viable. If it is, that's awesome and having 600v three phase opens up a huge supply of cheap machines with minimal competition as most can't be bothered with the hassle/expense of getting them working at home.

True on the conversion.

There are lots of non CNC machines on the used market but conversion is difficult work on single phase. Three phase motors are more compact so a single phase replacement sometimes won't physically fit.

That leaves the China / India new ones that haven't the same class at the old Brits.

 

[Jampy00]

Good point...equipment requiring 600V isn't light, or cheap. We use them on our equipment, and there's zero chance a small bobcat would be able to carry any of those. Heavy duty overhead cranes, larger equipment to move it around (forklifts as a minimum).

Lots to consider besides just power, but only @Jampy00 knows the details of the request.

You're 100% correct, many bridges to cross. But without the proper power the rest is a non issue.

Given the costs involved from hydro one and on site, I won't be surprised if this isn't financially viable.

I expect this to be 100% accurate

One other thing to be aware of if you have never dealt with 600V before.

It is not like 120...... you will not just get a light zap of a reminder if you accidentally touch the wrong thing.

I've dealt with 600v for years when I was a technician for industrial pneumatics, I did get shocked once... and only once and it was a valuable lesson..

 

[mimico_polak]

You're 100% correct, many bridges to cross. But without the proper power the rest is a non issue.

On the flip side...no point in getting 'proper' power if the rest of the infrastructure doesn't support it.

Chicken v egg thing.

 

[Jampy00]

On the flip side...no point in getting 'proper' power if the rest of the infrastructure doesn't support it.

Chicken v egg thing.

Again 100% correct, but I would not get proper power unless the rest was 100% guaranteed
While machinery is heavy, he moved it into the unit so he can move it here, that would be his responsibility.

 

[nobbie48]

On the flip side...no point in getting 'proper' power if the rest of the infrastructure doesn't support it.

Chicken v egg thing.

Where I had my industrial condo a company in another unit was bringing in a heavy unit and the existing floor slab was insufficient. The floor is part of the common element so board permission was required.

A condo I was interested in had a power problem. Sales were slow and when a buyer came along that was willing to take a large area, the developer allowed them to take a disproportionate amount of the main power.

That meant the rest of the units only had 30 amp 600 volt power. That's ok for light warehouse but anyone wanting to do machining had to limit their loads. The developer ended up limiting his market. Hydro wouldn't approve more power to the complex because the buyer with the big switch wasn't using the capacity and the complex was seen as sufficiently supplied.

 

[nobbie48]

Again 100% correct, but I would not get proper power unless the rest was 100% guaranteed
While machinery is heavy, he moved it into the unit so he can move it here, that would be his responsibility.

Check your liabilities. I am under the impression a tenant can't create a liability for which the property owner would be responsible. If it doesn't work out, the various trades and suppliers can't come after you. Confirm the details with legal council.

With small peanuts deals, it can be hard to justify legal expenses but if something goes wrong who gets the bill?

I was talking to a guy that was P***** off. He loaned a friend $10K to start a business but the business failed. He asked about getting his money back and was told "You invested in a business that failed and it's gone."

"NO. I loaned YOU money"

"NO. You invested in a business that failed"

Repeat ad nauseam

 

[GreyGhost]

Check your liabilities. I am under the impression a tenant can't create a liability for which the property owner would be responsible. If it doesn't work out, the various trades and suppliers can't come after you. Confirm the details with legal council.

With small peanuts deals, it can be hard to justify legal expenses but if something goes wrong who gets the bill?

I was talking to a guy that was P***** off. He loaned a friend $10K to start a business but the business failed. He asked about getting his money back and was told "You invested in a business that failed and it's gone."

"NO. I loaned YOU money"

"NO. You invested in a business that failed"

Repeat ad nauseam

Paperwork is necessary if I ever expect money back. When I have loaned money in the past, I assumed it was gone but was happily surprised when cheques showed up (and cleared).

 

[Jampy00]

Check your liabilities. I am under the impression a tenant can't create a liability for which the property owner would be responsible. If it doesn't work out, the various trades and suppliers can't come after you. Confirm the details with legal council.

With small peanuts deals, it can be hard to justify legal expenses but if something goes wrong who gets the bill?

I was talking to a guy that was P***** off. He loaned a friend $10K to start a business but the business failed. He asked about getting his money back and was told "You invested in a business that failed and it's gone."

"NO. I loaned YOU money"

"NO. You invested in a business that failed"

Repeat ad nauseam

No money is being loaned?

This post is about how to obtain 600v anything after this is my concern.

 

[Mad Mike]

It’s a lot of guesswork unless you know what the equipment needs. My textile shop had several winding and cutting machines that were 600v3p because most big factories ordered their equipment that way. They were under 2hp, so when I moved to a new shop I just changed the motors to 220v 1ph. I have a 3ph lathe in my garage with a $100 VFD converting 220 single phase to 3ph.

Find out what his gear needs, then find the solution. More than 1 way to skin a cat.

 

[Jampy00]

It’s a lot of guesswork unless you know what the equipment needs. My textile shop had several winding and cutting machines that were 600v3p because most big factories ordered their equipment that way. They were under 2hp, so when I moved to a new shop I just changed the motors to 220v 1ph. I have a 3ph lathe in my garage with a $100 VFD converting 220 single phase to 3ph.

Find out what his gear needs, then find the solution. More than 1 way to skin a cat.

Well so for I know they can only run 600v 3ph not multi-voltage. When he is in the shop next we'll take a good look and figure out exactly what is required. My guess is he can only operate one machine at a time so that is hopefully good news. I'm contacting my hydro company to see what it'll cost to run 600v. My guess is a 2nd mortgage... LOL

 

[Brian P]

Think someone already caught this but we need volts, amps, and type of load (s).

If it's heavy duty stuff with high loads then it needs a proper 3-phase service, no two ways about it, and it's going to be engineered and need permits etc, bring lots of money because you'll need it.

If it's little stuff with small motors of standard frame sizes then probably the easiest fix is to swap the motors to single-phase.

If the motors aren't huge but it's impractical to swap motors, then use a combination of inverters or VFDs, and step-up transformers, or an old school rotary phase converter.

Need ... more ... information... !!!

 

[Jampy00]

Think someone already caught this but we need volts, amps, and type of load (s).

If it's heavy duty stuff with high loads then it needs a proper 3-phase service, no two ways about it, and it's going to be engineered and need permits etc, bring lots of money because you'll need it.

If it's little stuff with small motors of standard frame sizes then probably the easiest fix is to swap the motors to single-phase.

If the motors aren't huge but it's impractical to swap motors, then use a combination of inverters or VFDs, and step-up transformers, or an old school rotary phase converter.

Need ... more ... information... !!!

When he is in the shop next we'll take a good look and figure out exactly what is required.

 

[Bobo]

One other thing to be aware of if you have never dealt with 600V before.

It is not like 120...... you will not just get a light zap of a reminder if you accidentally touch the wrong thing.

Actually when you are getting zapped by 600v you are really only getting getting 347v if it’s a wye configuration as most services are. You would only get 600v if you came into contact with two different phases at the same time. Either way it friggin’ hurts. I’ve felt both.

 

[Bobo]

Another question: Somewhere in the back of my mind I recall a restriction on number of services that can be run to a building. Understandably, One would expect when a main is disconnected anything in the building is safe to work on.

Maybe one of our more knowledgeable gurus can clarify.

Somewhere in the code book there’s a rule that says your only suppose to have one service to a building with one main disconnect but I’ve been in many older commercial buildings that have two.

 

[Bobo]

When he is in the shop next we'll take a good look and figure out exactly what is required.

A good rule of thumb is that a 600v 3 phase motor will draw almost exactly 1 amp per horsepower and you don’t want to load your service up more than 80%. So a 30 amp 600v 3 phase service which is the smallest you would see in a small industrial unit could safely run a combined total of 24 horsepower of equipment continuously minus any heating and lighting loads. That’s actually quite a bit of equipment.

 

[Jampy00]

Had a conversation with hydro and while it is possible as myself and others have said it could easily get really expensive as they'd have to run about a km of line. I'm still interested but my wallet isn't... Lol

 

[nobbie48]

Had a conversation with hydro and while it is possible as myself and others have said it could easily get really expensive as they'd have to run about a km of line. I'm still interested but my wallet isn't... Lol

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[nobbie48]

Another factor is privacy.

Straight long term storage is fairly simple. Drop off seasonal equipment at the end of the season and pick it up at the start of the next season.

Day to day stuff can have delivery people, equipment service people, customers wandering about looking for a washroom etc.

 

[backmarkerducati]

Somewhere in the code book there’s a rule that says your only suppose to have one service to a building with one main disconnect but I’ve been in many older commercial buildings that have two.

IME for a larger commercial building there will be a main service (600v or...) and then transformers to drop it to 120/208 throughout the building and/or in each suite.

Sounds like the OP isn't going to do it but my guess is that would have been the case, 600v feed to the building with a transformer to get the 120/208 post service/meter. 120 for obvious use and any device that is looking for 240v will instead use two phases and get 208v...