How to destroy the economy with common sense. | Page 3 | GTAMotorcycle.com

How to destroy the economy with common sense.

Making a lot of money makes things so much easier, but "keeping up with the Jones'" will torpedo you regardless of how much you make. There's always someone richer that you can compare yourself to:
When I was younger, I planned to keep mortgages around 200K and move up houses when I got under 50K to go. That is a level that can be carried without much financial stress even with one income or large increase in interest rates. Unfortunately, a combination of extremely high transaction cost (and hassle) combined with government allowing unlimited tax-free appreciation of principal residence puts people in a situation where statistically, one of the better financial plays you can make is max mortgage and pray. For 99% of the people, that works out well financially over the long-term. It adds stress and cashflow concerns and for a few people the house of cards collapses.

Hell, with rapid escalation in prices, there are some interesting scenarios happening. I know people that bought a house about 15 years ago for 500K. Obviously shingles will need to be done in the next few years and they are likely looking at a ~$40K bill. That is almost 10% of what they paid for the house and occurs all at once. Sure they could put it on HELOC but rapidly rising variable rate will hurt. Mortgage should be down to something like 200K left. Do they refinance and add 25% to their mortgage to cover a maintenance expense? Ouch.

If government enacted the tax-grab they discussed where homeowners pay a yearly 1 or 2% of house value as a wealth tax, we would probably sell and move. Sure the house may still make money long term but cash-flow would be brutal. They were talking about allowing it as an interest bearing loan but that could run away from you quite quickly. Nothing guarantees a future government doesn't increase the rates on those loans once they are well into six figures. You could easily get foreclosed if that rate bump happened before you paid off your mortgage and could afford to divert that money into the outstanding tax liability. If they plan to tax homeowners (not a terrible plan imo if structured properly), a tax on the way out is far more palatable than continuously drawing blood.
 
I know people that bought a house about 15 years ago for 500K. Obviously shingles will need to be done in the next few years and they are likely looking at a ~$40K bill. That is almost 10% of what they paid for the house and occurs all at once. Sure they could put it on HELOC but rapidly rising variable rate will hurt. Mortgage should be down to something like 200K left. Do they refinance and add 25% to their mortgage to cover a maintenance expense? Ouch.

To advocate a bit more for the path of financial restraint, very decent houses could be had for $300k 15 years ago (I bought one). The rest of the equation depends on income and how much you're willing to pay down the mortgage in those 15 years, but the $40k roofing bill becomes much less of a problem.

Housing is the choice that has the biggest influence by far, but the restraint attitude pays off all over the place. I have a garage packed full of cheap old motorcycles. A good example is my dirt bike, a Kawasaki KDX220. It was at least 12 years old when I bought it for under $2,500 off kijijji. At the time, a brand new KTM that filled the same role was at least $10k. The KTM is objectively better in every regard, but is it 4 times better than the Kawasaki? More importantly, is it 4 times as much fun? Nope.
 
Making a lot of money makes things so much easier, but "keeping up with the Jones'" will torpedo you regardless of how much you make. There's always someone richer that you can compare yourself to:



Both sides of my family were generally rather poor, and that evolved into a sort of reverse-snobbery. That is to say, rather than looking down at poor people, they tended to sneer at people who displayed ostentatious wealth. It's still a form of judgementalism so it isn't morally superior to regular snobbery, but growing up with that sort of culture lays a good base for financial restraint as your earning power increases. Things look a lot different when driving a Hyundai is seen as a badge of honour instead of a BMW or Mercedes.
I don't know if it's a British / UK thing but I had a Scottish friend that was so trade / class oriented he would rather be seen driving an old Ford than a new Rolls Royce even if the cost was the same. He was very proud of being humble. More accurately, he would have felt he was turning against his mates.
 
How do you figure, unless you are talking about losing by paying cash upfront?

If someone bought $2000 of whatever at truly 0%, took $2000 cash and put it in a GIC at 3% for the year and then handed over the $2000 the day it was due... they are left with $60 cash in their pocket, interest for the year on the $2000.

If that same person paid cash up front, they get nothing. The retailer gets any interest... all TVM.

NOW, if the retailer charged a $60 processing fee up front or a higher price up front to get "0%" (basically they are front loading financing costs in other fees) then cash up front may be better. This part is common IME and in many cases the upfront difference in price is > actual interest assuming a LOC. But way lower than even a "low" interest credit card.

Then there is want vs need. But to be fair this is a motorcycle forum so want vs need is mostly a moot point....

Yes, you're right for the "buy" now pay later. I was thinking more of the "buy" now and pay monthly or weekly or whatever.

Of course I would always advise against financing anything just because it creates bad habits.
 
Technically at 0% the money is in your account until you pay it down. 0% on cars is already baked into the price, but I'm sure it's baked in everywhere.

The whole 0% thing assumes the majority of people do not read their contracts, and then will get hit with a large fee.

@Mad Mike Totally forgot about the HD 0% for 12-24 months on large purchases. This will come in very handy when it's time to do the renovation as the bulk of the stuff will be from HD.

Pay down as much as I can on the 0% offer, and then move everything to a HELOC when time for interests starts.

Yeah, I was thinking of the payments until the end of the loan, not the loans that have no payments until the end. But of course, just like you said you're going to do here, how many people actually pay the full amount off at the end. I will say that it will always be better to wait and save the money, rather than to finance anything.

For example. Drive a beater car for 5 years while putting a "car payment" into a savings account every month. That would be the rational thing to do, but people aren't rational at all, and they'll go finance a car and pay a bunch of interest on it. Or instead of a car, home renovations. Or whatever else there little heart desires right now.
 
Yeah, I was thinking of the payments until the end of the loan, not the loans that have no payments until the end. But of course, just like you said you're going to do here, how many people actually pay the full amount off at the end. I will say that it will always be better to wait and save the money, rather than to finance anything.

For example. Drive a beater car for 5 years while putting a "car payment" into a savings account every month. That would be the rational thing to do, but people aren't rational at all, and they'll go finance a car and pay a bunch of interest on it. Or instead of a car, home renovations. Or whatever else there little heart desires right now.
As you stated. That is exactly what people should do, but so many factors today work against this system.
#1 "we" all want it now..now..now!
#2 cost of living exceeds meaningful savings (for many)
#3 (at one time) finance rates were reasonable and with flexible payment options. (I'm not sure about now)
#4 finance companies tend not to care (as much) about credit ratings and knowingly lend money to people who can't/won't pay it back.
This "justifies" raising interest rates and punishing the people that actually pay their bills.

#4 is also similar with insurance companies - One time (years ago) I received a huge increase in my policy, when I called to ask about it, the answer I was provided was that the population had grown in my are, therefore my "risk" has increase resulting in me having to pay more.. I thanked them and changed providers.
 
Yeah, I was thinking of the payments until the end of the loan, not the loans that have no payments until the end. But of course, just like you said you're going to do here, how many people actually pay the full amount off at the end. I will say that it will always be better to wait and save the money, rather than to finance anything.

For example. Drive a beater car for 5 years while putting a "car payment" into a savings account every month. That would be the rational thing to do, but people aren't rational at all, and they'll go finance a car and pay a bunch of interest on it. Or instead of a car, home renovations. Or whatever else there little heart desires right now.
I’ve actually been doing that until recently.

$100/biweekly toward vacation
$150/biweekly toward car (ours are paid off)
$200/biweekly toward savings

But then life hits. As interest rates creeped up, and my wife is on maternity leave as self employed no incoming income I had to stop those payments.

Working on restarting them but now my mortgage is $500/month more than it was 6 months ago. So there’s that.

+++

It’s not always about wanting it now, or being impractical…sometimes life just gets in the way of our goals.

However those funds paid for our vacation, and my $2800 bill for my Honda maintenance and new tires. So at least those were fully funded purchase.
 
Of course I would always advise against financing anything just because it creates bad habits.
so you pay cash for cars, houses???
You would pay cash for your inventory and receivables running a business?
Seems a tad unrealistic.
Very few can fund an education in cash. What do they do?
 
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Buckle up…


Yes to all but housing, I have always run my business on cash.
That’s a very rare thing to do. I’m now more seriously exploring either trying to move up, changing roles/jobs, or going for a side / weekend income to make myself set better for the future.

No real debts except the recent furnace and air conditioner we bought on finance but I’m accelerating those payments.
 
so you pay cash for cars, houses???
You would pay cash for your inventory and receivables running a business?
Seems a tad unrealistic.
Very few can fund an education in cash. What do they do?
Cars & bikes, always cash.
Last two houses, cash.
(The house I'm in was cash.....and that got me a serious look from the lawyer, while he's telling me, "nobody does that". "I can't stand monthly payments" I told him.)
Look on him was like......
 

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Gotta love cash!
Any large purchase I'll have cash and ask what the discount is. On my recent trailer hitch/install purchase he was glad to take $200 cash for the labour and save me the tax. Every bit helps.
 
Gotta love cash!
Any large purchase I'll have cash and ask what the discount is. On my recent trailer hitch/install purchase he was glad to take $200 cash for the labour and save me the tax. Every bit helps.
How much of a pain in the ass was the install? I do my own and havent spent more than 30 minutes on one yet. I have one that I have been delaying installing as this car requires removal of the bumper cover and I havent bothered yet.
 
I would have done it (have in the past) and it could have been very easy because the Matirx has 4 weld nuts fastened to the frame rail for this purpose. However the fact they have seen 9 winters meant they either needed to be tapped or possibly even replaced and I didn't want to get into that.
 
so you pay cash for cars, houses???
You would pay cash for your inventory and receivables running a business?
Seems a tad unrealistic.
Very few can fund an education in cash. What do they do?
Only finance things that have a good chance of appreciating in value or delivering a ROI but it's not that simple.

In some cases appearance is an asset. If you want to be a financial advisor it helps to look successful therefore high end suits and the mandatory BMW. Fake it till you make it.

However, unless you entertain clients in your home, your furniture can be Kijiji or Sally Ann.

Read a lot about places. Books are free at libraries. Travel isn't. Many Caribbean vacations are just drunken, sun burnt, pig outs on a beach. Reading a book about the history of an island makes one more able to engage in conversation more interesting than the price of rum. It really works if you have ethnic clientele.

How hard nosed are you?

In my books if I had a mortgage and $50 in my pocket I could theoretically pay cash for lunch or a bottle but being hard nosed I say the $50 is money not paying down the mortgage.

Maintenance is a necessity. Don't cheap out on a hole in the roof and destroy the equity in your house, likely your second most valuable asset. Don't cheap out on your most valuable asset, your significant other. A bouquet of flowers or box of chocolate once in a while is a lot cheaper than a divorce. Don't forget the gift of time to your kids.
 
I rolled a bit higher in.my younger years... fancy cars, 3 car garage full of toys, serious bar bills. I also made more money in 2000 than today, so it was easy blowin high dough.

I learned. Home repairs can sneak up on you... like the $1200 pool liner repair that balloons to $25K. Kids cost more than Jaguars. 2008 -10 were rough years, my biz was 80% US exports at the time.

RESET. The new plan was to make every decision based on need, not want. That meant the truck was a WT, not a Denali. Traded in the Q45 for a Cruze. I'm just as happy.
 
I need a Mustang Mach-E….to save money on gas please! LoL

I’ve learned my lesson of want v need. Unfortunately I got cheap in the process. I prefer the term frugal.
 
I rolled a bit higher in.my younger years... fancy cars, 3 car garage full of toys, serious bar bills. I also made more money in 2000 than today, so it was easy blowin high dough.

I learned. Home repairs can sneak up on you... like the $1200 pool liner repair that balloons to $25K. Kids cost more than Jaguars. 2008 -10 were rough years, my biz was 80% US exports at the time.

RESET. The new plan was to make every decision based on need, not want. That meant the truck was a WT, not a Denali. Traded in the Q45 for a Cruze. I'm just as happy.
I drive a wt and we have a volt fancy cars aren't my deal. I make way more now than when I had expensive cars.

Sent from the future
 
The flipside to this is that I've seen a lot of people be penny-wise, but pound-foolish.

Yes, you can save a couple thousand dollars a year brown-bagging your lunch, but if you're losing tens of thousands of dollars on larger ticket expenses like financing/leasing a car or not shopping around for the best mortgage rate, or paying thousands of dollars in banking fees, then all that cost-savings effort is focused on the wrong task.

True but in many cases cash flow is an issue. You don't have the money to buy what you need to make you better money. Cash and credit was tight when I started my business so I would drive to Ottawa for a service call leaving at 3:00 AM, work the day and drive back. The couple of hundred in accommodations was chargeable but due soon. I might not get paid for a month and a half. It was also in the middle of a recession so little was guaranteed.

Nothing is worse than being owed a million bucks but no one is paying. Bell cuts your phone off for non payment and you can't even call a lawyer.
 
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I’ll be dead a long time , I checked on that. Right now I’m sitting in Hawaii because I’m all Caribbeaned out. We have nice cars because we like nice cars . I wanted both kids to graduate the school of their choice debt free so they could get on with life . I don’t regret any of it . I could certainly have been smarter with money and maybe I’d be retired by now , but I don’t sit still well .
Eating pineapple where they grow pineapples is a good life choice imo.


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