yes, so you can steer the rear somewhat. In the rain is a little different...getting off the throttle a bit isn't going to cause the rear to immediately regain traction as the wheel slows as it would in dry conditions.
how does high side happen...
- Thread starter redlinerush
- Start date
yes, so you can steer the rear somewhat. In the rain is a little different...getting off the throttle a bit isn't going to cause the rear to immediately regain traction as the wheel slows as it would in dry conditions.
EngineerJoe
Well-known member
From the video above, the back end slid out (start of a lowside) and once the back end regained traction, it whipped around the front so quickly that the rider high sided.
There was a LOT going on in that video that was wrong.
terrible body position to start with, which offered the rider zero control of the bike in the event of any kind of issue
When the rear lost traction, if he had maintained the current throttle application or added slightly more and began to stand the bike up, the highside could have been avoided,, this is the beginning of steering the bike from the back wheel.
Watch MX racing, you don't see a lot of corner exit low sides as the riders know the throttle will save them and the second the start to feel this occuring, they'll twist the throttle to the stop(lots more goes on,this is a simplification)
Automotive driving techniques aren't really applicable to motorcycles as the 2 vehicles operate much differently.
The loss of traction situation you experienced in the rain would have been much different in the dry.
In the rain, the tire will not regain traction abruptly.
A particularly bad scenario, discovered the hard way, is when portions of the surface (track) are wet and other portions are dry, resulting in grip being lost and regained one too many times - ouch!
slogan
Well-known member
It looks to me in the video, that the rider, when he got too low in the turn and the bike started sliding off, he turned the throttle and contr-steered the bike inside. As I understand, the final cause was his contr-steering, which resolved in high-siding... If he wouldn't turn the front wheel to the right, he would low-sided or just recovered the bike.
And yes, the first problem was his body position.:sad8:
And yes, the first problem was his body position.:sad8:
Last edited:
countersteering and staying on the gas would have prevented him from crashing at all.
slogan
Well-known member
So, which side? Did he have to countersteer into the outside direction? I mean pushing the right handlebar instead of the left (as he did)?
pushing the inside(left bar forward) ie, steering the front wheel to the right(if the bike is vertical) in a left turn, while applying power or at least maintaining constant throttle could have prevented the crash.
backtobikes
Active member
Maintaining constant speed is number 1 for getting out of an unexpected tight curve, or a minor slide. Provided you generally ride well within your ability, you'd be surprised how far a bike can go over, and how much the rear end can slide and come out of it just fine. Do not dump the throttle, pull the clutch in, or go for the brakes. Some throttle maintains the weight distribution of the bike. Touching the brakes - the rear especially, will bring on a low side faster than you can imagine.
If you are going into a corner and think or even have the slightest doubt you might have anykind of problem, get ready to pull your clutch in, i've purposely tested how to save a high side fall, after my first serious one last year, and the only thing that worked was, as soon as you feel your rear lean in (slip), PULL in the clutch & coast, because the first reaction is for the rider to let off the throttle and the bike rises back up after the rear slip then rear tire catches grip as the bike is being leveled out, then what causes the sudden flip to the other side is the chain engaged to the sproket and tire getting grip and bringing the bike back to the engaged speed all of a sudden, and the sudden jerk flips the rider and bike to the other side, but if you pull in the clutch you can either coast out, or rise the bike straight with a small violent wiggle and thats it, it won't flip over. It worked for me, after practice i can also clutch in straighten the bike out and slam on the rear brake and slide the bike off the corner, as an extra precaustion the rear tire does not get grip....this sounds really awkward, but the whole point of saving your self from getting whiped over like a banana peel is to no let the rear tire regain rolling grip after it has lost it, clutch in will work, most of the bike misshaps can be saved by easily just pulling in the cluth.
You get the record for the longest 2 sentences.
Almost as entertaining as a good long, long, long controlled slide (1 or 2 wheels).Ever notice in a picture that the GP, WSK, CDN-SBK.... racers ususally have at least 1 finger on the clutch lever when severely leaned over in a corner? Ever wonder why?
Last edited:
Pulling in the clutch will do nothing in this case.
I encourage anyone to try pulling in their clutch mid-corner, even while under complete control, you'll be quite surprised at what happens.
If the rear starts to slide and you pull in the clutch, you will be ejected from the bike, post haste.
I encourage anyone to try pulling in their clutch mid-corner, even while under complete control, you'll be quite surprised at what happens.
If the rear starts to slide and you pull in the clutch, you will be ejected from the bike, post haste.
SweetOnion
Well-known member
When I am in complete control... and I pull the clutch in, it feels to me like the bike wants to turn in more, and the lean angle is easier to increase, as there seems to be less gyroscopic forces holding the bike up.. ?? When I am at the track and I feel like I am going to run wide, I find that the clutch helps me turn the bike more... and if I were to pull in the clutch with no grip... that would be like chopping the throttle..? Do I get a star?
Lol I ride a 250 that can't even highside in the rain and even I know that's horrible advice. I think what you meant to say is that pulling the clutch in is better than chopping the throttle. But that would still be more dangerous than gassing it out and standing it up.
Now the real question is: would it be better to pick the lowside over pulling the clutch in and taking your chances?
No, that's not the question. Don't pull in the clutch, the only time you'd do that mid corner is if you were riding a 2-stroke GP bike and the engine was seizing up.
Futher, pulling in the clutch is not better than chopping the throttle. I honestly don't even know what he meant to write, but what he did write is quite wrong.
Futher, pulling in the clutch is not better than chopping the throttle. I honestly don't even know what he meant to write, but what he did write is quite wrong.
it happens when you look at the camera instead of where you are going
johnny, all it happened in there was poor trowtle control, thats all
Wow, I will end up in the grass if I pull the clutch in the middle of a lean, . I like to go in a turn in somewhat high rpm so the engine controls the bike and i can accellerate when coming out. but that is just me , I am not an experienced track rider
SweetOnion
Well-known member
I think my bike might have something to do with it... it's an SV, and I get massive engine braking... the bike always feels like it is trying to fight turning in a little bit... any time I'm off the throttle it is decelerating quite a bit, and is not much different than using about 15-20% strength on the rear brake. Going into turn 3 at TMP I find I can just roll off the gas coming out of turn 2 and barely even need to touch the brakes it's slowing down so much on it's own.
