One class I teach has no exams. Everything is assessed by team assignments, presentations and debates. The teams are constantly changed so the personalities are mixed. The assignments are marked as technical reports and anything that doesn't look professional is penalised and the students have 1 week to prepare them. Debate topics are forced on the students such that they have to argue a side even if they don't agree with it. That's a valuable skill in itself, the ability to see merit in components of an opposing argument (a skill that's lacking today in this tribalized world). Add to this small individual presentations each week by several students. By the end of the course they have all given multiple individual and team researched technical presentations and composed team assignments across several interdisciplinary technical subjects. It's my favourite course to teach as the engagement by the students is so high. At the end of the course I think the students have gained valuable skills.
How crucial is education in the real world?
- Thread starter Mina
- Start date
I haven't graduated from university but have been to college twice. The first time was back in the early nineties as an apprentice mechanic. It was a couple months for three years to get my inter-provincial license. I worked in that trade for ten years.
I got bored with wrenching on cars and PC's had become the thing I was interested in. I went back to school for computers and networking. I landed my first job out of school because I had not only done the schooling but had also at the same time gotten some industry accreditation.
I have been in the banking industry in information security for 20 years now. My perspective is this ... university may get you in the door fresh out of school but I'd rather have someone with real world experience. Not that I hire people at entry level anymore but these days I'm looking for soft skills. I can teach the tech side, I want someone that can represent the department, give presentations and has common sense. That's the hardest thing to find these days is common sense. You support your department's mandate, you take ownership of issues and understand what your management's perspective is and represent it.
I guess the bottom line is I want people that will look good and make reasonable decisions. If they screw up fine, I'll back them ... but they better make sense.
I got bored with wrenching on cars and PC's had become the thing I was interested in. I went back to school for computers and networking. I landed my first job out of school because I had not only done the schooling but had also at the same time gotten some industry accreditation.
I have been in the banking industry in information security for 20 years now. My perspective is this ... university may get you in the door fresh out of school but I'd rather have someone with real world experience. Not that I hire people at entry level anymore but these days I'm looking for soft skills. I can teach the tech side, I want someone that can represent the department, give presentations and has common sense. That's the hardest thing to find these days is common sense. You support your department's mandate, you take ownership of issues and understand what your management's perspective is and represent it.
I guess the bottom line is I want people that will look good and make reasonable decisions. If they screw up fine, I'll back them ... but they better make sense.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I think you'll find experience is king in smaller companies, work ethic is king if you want to be successful in big firms.
I work for a big company, hiring managers typically evaluate dependability (does this person come to work every day, are they punctual?), work ethic (do they put their hand up for the dirty assignments or do they duck under the desk?).
Completely agree. I can teach a new employee a lot of things, but having a good attitude and an enthusiastic work ethic come from within.
I can agree with this.
Do they show up on time has become a baseline. Much like how much time do they allocate to facebook/insta/ kijiji shopping, texting wife or kids and discussing hockey, and its sure not age or demographic specific.
why does a dog lick his balls?? because he can
why does a dog lick his balls?? because he can
JD_PICKLE
Well-known member
Just to lighten the mood a bit about Millennials. The last 3 we had at work, (tool & die shop) had one eye on the work, and the other on their phone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo0KjdDJr1c
I know someone that didn't give the company wi-fi password to an employee as she was always looking at her phone on the job.
If I catch mine using their social media too much during work hours... I get to write something on their status, wall, or whatever...and they have to leave it for the rest of the work day. That's the deal I have with mine.
You're friends with your employees on Facebook?
Two sets of people I'd never want as friends on FB: bosses and parents...
No, I don't have FB. If I catch them using theirs too much... I get to write on their FB, from their profile.. as if they wrote it.
LOL! Got it.
Green Meenie
Well-known member
I've found even when people show up and on time for work they end up on their cell phones or social media for half the day. Wait a minute .... I'm paying you for 8 hours work and only getting 4 or 5 hours?
And yes I know you can make policy around cell phone usage or ban them outright in the workplace and you can block social media sites but come on ..... if you have to do that, you have a problem with work ethic that isn't going to go away. Dependability and real work ethic are very hard to come by these days.
Everyone's a special flower who expects to be a gold member in the F.T.D. Club!
ddusseld
Well-known member
Every professional field (which I include certified/licensed trades) has an education requirement AND sometimes more importantly a barrier to entry.
The education requirement may be a trade school for trades. For people like Engineers, Doctors, Nurses, Teachers, Lawyers, etc., there will be some sort of professional degree (or in some cases College) requirement.
Barrier to entry is not really talked about much BUT education also forms part of it. It is played as a quality control item but in many cases it also there to keep people out. In the cases of trades it is x number of on the job hours plus the trade school. Does not matter if you know everything there is to know and that you have all the skills, unless you go through their path you are nobody. Same thing for the university degree professions.
What is interesting (as a barrier to entry example), lets say you get a two or three year college diploma in Electrical Technician/Technology and want to become an licensed electrician. Do not expect to get any significant credit for your diploma towards your papers, you need to go through THEIR system (barrier to entry). Same goes for many of the trades... you may end up doing school twice, no or little credit for like education.
The days where a degree, any degree putting people in the fast track in life are long gone (but there may be a long run aspect, see below). Now the education must really match what you want to do keeping in mind the barrier to entry. Professional degrees really matter if that is the profession you are going into, other than that???
One long run aspect, some large companies still require a degree to work there or to move up the food chain. I have even seen an upswing in this lately. A person with 20+ years of experience working through the ranks and a bonafide expert won't make it past the HR screening. In these corner cases any degree checks the box....
The education requirement may be a trade school for trades. For people like Engineers, Doctors, Nurses, Teachers, Lawyers, etc., there will be some sort of professional degree (or in some cases College) requirement.
Barrier to entry is not really talked about much BUT education also forms part of it. It is played as a quality control item but in many cases it also there to keep people out. In the cases of trades it is x number of on the job hours plus the trade school. Does not matter if you know everything there is to know and that you have all the skills, unless you go through their path you are nobody. Same thing for the university degree professions.
What is interesting (as a barrier to entry example), lets say you get a two or three year college diploma in Electrical Technician/Technology and want to become an licensed electrician. Do not expect to get any significant credit for your diploma towards your papers, you need to go through THEIR system (barrier to entry). Same goes for many of the trades... you may end up doing school twice, no or little credit for like education.
The days where a degree, any degree putting people in the fast track in life are long gone (but there may be a long run aspect, see below). Now the education must really match what you want to do keeping in mind the barrier to entry. Professional degrees really matter if that is the profession you are going into, other than that???
One long run aspect, some large companies still require a degree to work there or to move up the food chain. I have even seen an upswing in this lately. A person with 20+ years of experience working through the ranks and a bonafide expert won't make it past the HR screening. In these corner cases any degree checks the box....
I disagree if this is the only criteria. What you could end up with is a "basket weaving" course for the teachers, who sit back and let the students teach themselves.
Disconnected teachers with more years in, might squeeze out more enthusiastic teachers out of these types of courses.
Imagine a course where the teacher assigns the class work each day and then sits at the back browsing the Web.
If on the other hand, debating starts with a survey as to where the class stands on a topic,
watching a good debate on it,
seeing if anyone changed their minds,
working backwards through the debate to see how the debaters prepared,
going through the steps of preparing and executing a good debate,
giving out the topics,
have the students debate,
evaluating the debates as a group . . .
Then I agree with what you're saying.
I went all through high school writing essays, but it wasn't until I went back to college many years later, that they actually taught us how to write an essay, before asking us to write one.
The sly CEO that implements the cuts will bail out as the profit gains peak. He goes to a new company with the profits showing him as a genius. Pity his replacement as he has to make up for the lost machinery and rebuild the company. The Titanic was making good speed until it hit the iceberg.
