How is the 1190 in snow? The capo was absolutely friggin horrendous. Every time a piston fires it would spin up the back tire. Absolute terrifying nightmare.
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H-D has a new boss
- Thread starter TK4
- Start date
As I sit in my garage here I started thinking?
I have a very high end mountain bike here built by a company that although they won MTB of the year a few years running for this particular bike.
They only sold high end bikes and went bankrupt.
Niner has been bought out of bankruptcy but still hasn’t taken off like Trek, Giant and Norco. Who all have entry level along with there high end.
We all know how that worked for boutique car makers like Ferrari and Lamborghini.
Maybe that will be the fate of Harley Davidson eventually be the high end line belonging to Hyosung ?
I have a very high end mountain bike here built by a company that although they won MTB of the year a few years running for this particular bike.
They only sold high end bikes and went bankrupt.
Niner has been bought out of bankruptcy but still hasn’t taken off like Trek, Giant and Norco. Who all have entry level along with there high end.
We all know how that worked for boutique car makers like Ferrari and Lamborghini.
Maybe that will be the fate of Harley Davidson eventually be the high end line belonging to Hyosung ?
Sketchy AF and I’m not doing it again but thanks for asking
Roadghost
Well-known member
Completely understood. My feeling is that they'll never get there trying to produce cheap bikes, or bikes that the other guys produce for 30% less. The reality is building bikes in the USA is too expensive, and it has been for decades. HD's bikes are modern. All of their engines were developed from scratch within the last 5 years, except the Sportster's, which remains a best seller. So there is no justification for saying Harley Davidsons are old, other than the classic styling.
As for the dying-out generation argument, that's overstated. The boomers and the Gen-X crowd grew up loving choppers, EasyRiders, custom motorcycles etc. The last thing a kid in 1975 ever wanted was a lame-ass Electra Glide. They were about as cool as mom's minivan in the 1960s, 70s and 80s. It wasn't until the 1990s and 2000s that those folks realized touring on a big, soft couch with a primo stereo and electric gadgets was better than roughing it on a Low Rider or a Sportster. There will always be 40+ year olds who have had enough of riding sport bikes, choppers, dual sports, etc. and just want a soft relaxing ride across the open country. There will be ebbs and flows with that, but the market will always exist.
The biggest problem for ALL manufacturers is that the market is shrinking overall. People don't have the disposable income they once did. The cost of living is too high. Insurance is extortionate. Car drivers using cell phones want to kill you. Videos of riders dying a gruesome death litter YouTube, LiveLeak, et al. A lot of young people just don't want the hassle. It's a sad state of affairs. This will continue until there is some kind of pop-culture phenomenon that makes motorcycling cool again.
pfbmgd
Well-known member
You want make Harleys that sell . They need to fix a few things . They need to make engines liquid cooled . Believe it or not may Harley guy are ready for this . The suspension needs to work for more then the straight line . The ergonomics need to improve a bit . The electronics need to be up to date . My 20 finally has traction control and ABS that works . The bikes are still years behind the Imports . People will pay the premium if the bikes measure up .
JTR
Well-known member
Yet people keep buying Rolls Royce a hundred years later?
Yup
I was born in 76. Raise on the back of dads bikes And had a trail 50 to call my own at 6 years old. When I was a kid I wanted a lime green with purple seat kx125.
As a young teen there was nothing cool about my dad’s Suzuki Cavalcade other than it was cooler than the family car.
As young adult there was nothing cool about dads obsession with metric cruisers
But I sure loved the art work being built by Jesse James and OCC.
Still wanted a sport bike deep down. RC51 still want one.
At over 30 years old. Nothing was cool about my Dad’s 2001 Indian scout or the Harley Ultra Classic.
But when he added that Custom Chopper that looked like Arlen Ness built it to the collection.
I was in love and ran to the mto as fast as I could to get my M1.
By the time I had my M2 I had realized the Chopper was for looking at not riding.
His Ultra on the other hand ? I could take my young Daughter and she loved it.
So I bought a Road glide
Shortly after that I had a 2001 R6 in my garage and could take it when ever I wanted. Which turned out to be once. I’m not going to the track why would I want to be that uncomfortable.
The Classic Harley will always have a place.
They are like having that classic Chevelle only with modern brakes handling and power, and a banging sound system. And that paint OMG the paint.
I was born in 76. Raise on the back of dads bikes And had a trail 50 to call my own at 6 years old. When I was a kid I wanted a lime green with purple seat kx125.
As a young teen there was nothing cool about my dad’s Suzuki Cavalcade other than it was cooler than the family car.
As young adult there was nothing cool about dads obsession with metric cruisers
But I sure loved the art work being built by Jesse James and OCC.
Still wanted a sport bike deep down. RC51 still want one.
At over 30 years old. Nothing was cool about my Dad’s 2001 Indian scout or the Harley Ultra Classic.
But when he added that Custom Chopper that looked like Arlen Ness built it to the collection.
I was in love and ran to the mto as fast as I could to get my M1.
By the time I had my M2 I had realized the Chopper was for looking at not riding.
His Ultra on the other hand ? I could take my young Daughter and she loved it.
So I bought a Road glide
Shortly after that I had a 2001 R6 in my garage and could take it when ever I wanted. Which turned out to be once. I’m not going to the track why would I want to be that uncomfortable.
The Classic Harley will always have a place.
They are like having that classic Chevelle only with modern brakes handling and power, and a banging sound system. And that paint OMG the paint.
imo
They measure up and far exceed the comparable Japanese bikes.
So what made you buy a 2020 Road Glide if they are so far behind?
Im genuinely curious.
JTR
Well-known member
Pretty sure they do
Pretty sure they do
Done, and done? Harley makes some of the most comfortable bikes in the world. With prox keys, digital dashes, adjustable suspensions, fuel injection for ages now, touch screens on the touring bikes. etc. how much wiring do you WANT on a bike?
I don't know, do most of the imports have an EV already on the market?
I'm really not trying to be a fanboy, I don't even have one, I've just experienced riding a few. But some of these myths are just way too easy to debunk.
His sig says he owns a 2020 Road Glide
Im hoping he comes back to elaborate because I’ve ridden the 2019 ultra limited and it was not even close to the bike my 2006 Road glide was. It was better in every way. From power, handling, brakes and electronics.
A friend has a 2016 Road Glide special in hard candy red metallic with all gloss black no chrome and it has got to be the nicest factory paint I have ever seen on a bike.
Im hoping he comes back to elaborate because I’ve ridden the 2019 ultra limited and it was not even close to the bike my 2006 Road glide was. It was better in every way. From power, handling, brakes and electronics.
A friend has a 2016 Road Glide special in hard candy red metallic with all gloss black no chrome and it has got to be the nicest factory paint I have ever seen on a bike.
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ruffriders
Well-known member
I don’t think Harley should make cheaper bikes, just better bikes, adapt to what more people want in the 30-45 range
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I’m not sure what people mean by better.
Who cares if it’s liquid cooled if it doesn’t over heat?
Yes they could stop faster but they are heavy and not really intended to be ridden in that manner. I can’t imagine any 900lb touring bike stopping.
I mean how fast does a gold wing stop? I’ve never been on one.
If you ride the bike the way it was designed to be ridden they are good.
I don’t ***** because my Sierra won’t corner like a Corvette
I don’t ***** that my Cobra is horrendous on fuel or I get sun burnt when I drive it.
Harley as of yet does not sell sport bikes. Maybe that’s coming.
They do however build a great touring sofa on two wheels.
They build cruisers with great customizable options not just hey you can choose of three colours.
The v rod was a good muscle bike while it lasted.
Looks like they have an electric bike coming to market that seems good so far.
Who cares if it’s liquid cooled if it doesn’t over heat?
Yes they could stop faster but they are heavy and not really intended to be ridden in that manner. I can’t imagine any 900lb touring bike stopping.
I mean how fast does a gold wing stop? I’ve never been on one.
If you ride the bike the way it was designed to be ridden they are good.
I don’t ***** because my Sierra won’t corner like a Corvette
I don’t ***** that my Cobra is horrendous on fuel or I get sun burnt when I drive it.
Harley as of yet does not sell sport bikes. Maybe that’s coming.
They do however build a great touring sofa on two wheels.
They build cruisers with great customizable options not just hey you can choose of three colours.
The v rod was a good muscle bike while it lasted.
Looks like they have an electric bike coming to market that seems good so far.
ruffriders
Well-known member
By better I mean refined, ride a Harley for 3 hours straight over non perfect roads the a K1600 and see the difference, they don’t need to loose their heritage, just refine what they have.
pfbmgd
Well-known member
I doubt you have ridden many Harleys . Their bottom of the line 500 and 750 are liquid cooled . Vrod is off the market . Probably the best motor made . The next liquid cooled heads or twin cooled . The infotainment has many short comings . If you actually rode one for more then a test ride . You would see the suspension sucks .
I think I know the short comings . I own a 20 RGL . Maybe your riding style is not the same as mine .
I can see that.
I have never ridden a K1600 but they do look up to the mile munching task.
Harley touring bikes do prefer some choice asphalt I will concede on that one.
I mentioned a nice road up north to my Dad and he told me “that road was garbage.”
I said “dad I have the perfect bike for bad roads, I look for bad roads”
pfbmgd
Well-known member
You sadly mistaken about exceeding imports .
I bought it based on a quick test ride . Once I really got used to the bike the flaws came out . Don't get me wrong I love the bike . But I need to spend 3k to get the suspension to get where it should be . Plus 1 to 2 k to get the stereo to where it needs to be .
BigEvilDoer
Well-known member
Hmmm.... let's see... Motor commissioned by Buell. Motor design by Porsche. Fuelling by Buell.
HD suddenly decided they wanted a liquid cooled muscle bike. Promptly added 70 lbs (!!!!) of dead metal to "make the lines of the engine suit the motorcycle." Buell promptly dropped the engine, as it was now too heavy to race with.
pfbmgd
Well-known member
I have done 800km in a day with my custom seat . With no issues . But that is in a straight line . Once the road starts to get twisty . The suspension fails miserably .
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