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nobbie48 said:
Where do they put them and what do the ocupants use for toilets etc?

NIMBY
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The body heat warmed ones would be quickly turned into death traps when combustion inside was used to raise the temp. Add in some lawsuits for not providing adequate temperature for tenants and the idea dies. As you said, with the right frame of mind and teaching, those cubes could be a great solution. I'm pretty convinced they would be deathtraps if deployed to this problem.
 
GreyGhost said:
Another decent idea ruined by regulations and poor planning. Almost every similar idea is a fire trap and quickly gets formally banned. I only see one exit. Smoke alarm is mounted 18" down from ceiling. The crap about designed for ebike regs so it can travel in the bike lanes is complete hooey as this trailer is going to be heavy and a 4' wide trailer in a bike lane going <5 km/h screws everything up. Running water means you have to keep it heated at all times. They say they are heated but don't say where the energy comes from. My guess is they need to be plugged in and you'd need close to 15A for each one.

Good intentions, another disastrous execution.
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Have to kind of agree. These sound great in theory. In actual practice, without a source of electricity to run the heating system - and yeah, 15a minimum assuming a space heater, and expect that circuit breaker to pop regularly when the occupant then tries to run a hot plate or kettle or whatever at the same time, not understanding they can't run heat AND an appliance at the same time, so then not only where is that power coming from, but who's paying for it, and what happens when the circuit breakers are endlessly popping? The homeless can probably find plugs (as an RV traveller, they're out there in surpsingly many places), but when the circuit breaker pops 20 minutes later and isn't accessable, then what?

So then the occupant puts a propane heater in there and either asphiates themselves on carbon monoxide, or it bursts into flames. Happens with tents all the time.

The water system? Great idea, but again, yeah, it'll be frozen solid and busted inside the first week.

In actual practice this would end up being just a glorified sleeping box and nothing more. Might as well do away with the cabinets and all that, make it a giant bed on wheels with LOTS of insulation, and hope for the best.

MacDoc said:
Better than a tent.
Peterboroughs looks much better designed and executed.
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In checking the news it doesn't look like there's been any issues that have made the news at least, so it must be kinda-sorta working at least. But yeah, high monthly operating costs.
 
GreyGhost said:
The body heat warmed ones would be quickly turned into death traps when combustion inside was used to raise the temp. Add in some lawsuits for not providing adequate temperature for tenants and the idea dies. As you said, with the right frame of mind and teaching, those cubes could be a great solution. I'm pretty convinced they would be deathtraps if deployed to this problem.
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If you gave them a cardboard box to shelter them from the wind you are heartless, mean and greedy as you should have give them the all inclusive model. You should have done more.

If you just threw out the cardboard box and they took it to keep them selves out of the wind you can't be blamed as aren't part of the process. They are also, in a simple way, doing something about their problem. It would be a start.

In Darwin's world they would starting looking for better boxes and figure out how to make them last longer, figure out how to better locate them and keep them from being stolen. Theoretically, some would end up with granite countertops.

The reality is that many are brain dead from drugs or circumstances and rely on their reptilian brain to function. Thinking ahead is beyond their abilities.
 
and what as a society to do with them??
Finland seems to deal with it and considers Housing First as the primary step to dealing with the other social ills.
I used to hate going to San Fran for conventions ( I love the city ) due to the homeless literally in your face and aggressive.
 
MacDoc said:
Better than a tent.
Peterboroughs looks much better designed and executed.
View attachment 71688

Quebec trying to emulate Finlands Housing First policy
globalnews.ca

Finland’s successful approach to ending homelessness catches eye of Quebec City | Globalnews.ca

Quebec City Mayor Bruno Marchand has suggested that the solution to the crisis may be a Finnish model, which is a 'housing first' approach that aims to give everyone a home.
globalnews.ca globalnews.ca
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Great idea, but I have to sigh when I hear it cost $50,000 for a 10x10 bunkie then $38,000 a year in public funds to maintain them.

My sister built 2 120sq’ luxury bunkies with hvac, kitchenette, and bathrooms for $15k each.

I’d be all in if I heard they were factory built for $300/sq foot and made available to folks willing to pay $250/mo for utilities and exterior upkeep, and spend 5 hours a week clearing snow, cutting grass and doing community maintenance.
 
MacDoc said:
and what as a society to do with them??
Finland seems to deal with it and considers Housing First as the primary step to dealing with the other social ills.
I used to hate going to San Fran for conventions ( I love the city ) due to the homeless literally in your face and aggressive.
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Ever been to Finland? You can’t compare it to Canada. Finland has an extremely high level of civic responsibility compared to Canada. There are about 3500 homeless out of a population of 5.5 million in Finland.

Toronto provides housing for over 8000 at any given time at no cost, plus subsidized housing for another 85000. That’s about 10x what Finland endures.
 
Yes briefly visited Finland for a day on a cruise stop over tho not a lot of take away from that visit but impressed with the country for education housing etc. from reading.
......

neat story and upcoming event (y)

Astronomers ready for dazzling but brief celestial show after 80-year wait​

25 minutes ago
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www.bbc.com

T Cor Bor: Astronomers await dazzling celestial show

Astronomers are poised to see a star system about 3,000 light years away explode into brightness.
www.bbc.com www.bbc.com
 
Australian cheap housing near us...never heard of a "donga" - had to ask partner
One bedroom donga located in Mareeba. Comes with washing machine, stove etc. Great little extra accomodation only selling due to change of plans.
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1735543727193.png

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GreyGhost said:
Entire agree. To do it properly costs >$20k per dwelling, close to that every year in operating expenses and land on top. While the $5k solutions are laudable, I haven't seen one that isn't a deathtrap.
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A HD garden shed for under $2K is better than a tent. The hazards are due to the mental difficulties of the inhabitants. How do you unfry a brain?

At some point some people need to be in protective custody. Protected from themselves.
 
GreyGhost said:
The body heat warmed ones would be quickly turned into death traps when combustion inside was used to raise the temp. Add in some lawsuits for not providing adequate temperature for tenants and the idea dies. As you said, with the right frame of mind and teaching, those cubes could be a great solution. I'm pretty convinced they would be deathtraps if deployed to this problem.
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All or nothing.

Working a a refinery there was a two foot diameter pipeline with the top about three feet above ground. Getting from side to side to effect a repair meant a 100 yard walk to a walk over. Instead we climbed over the pipe with its slippery cladding, against the rules.

I suggested a piece of metal mesh to make it less slippery. However that would imply it was OK to use that point as a cross over. A hazard review would point out that steps would be needed as well as handrails both sides. In essence, build a bridge. Then the pathways to and from it would have to be cleared of snow in winter. A platform to slide tools across would have to be built for things that couldn't be carried over the bridge. You had to have one hand free for the railing. As soon a hazard is recognized it must be dealt with or the lawyers arrive.

Heating / cooling with a heat pump is simple and produces no toxins. Water and sewage are a crazy cost.

An electric hotplate for cooking doesn't produce toxins but gets hot enough to ignite cooking oil.

I could survive quite nicely in my 8 X 12 shed if I insulated it and had a 15 amp circuit. Portapoti with a casette, lots of blankets or a sleeping bag and I'd be fine.

A fried brain couldn't handle it.
 
PrivatePilot said:
Have to kind of agree. These sound great in theory. In actual practice, without a source of electricity to run the heating system - and yeah, 15a minimum assuming a space heater, and expect that circuit breaker to pop regularly when the occupant then tries to run a hot plate or kettle or whatever at the same time, not understanding they can't run heat AND an appliance at the same time, so then not only where is that power coming from, but who's paying for it, and what happens when the circuit breakers are endlessly popping? The homeless can probably find plugs (as an RV traveller, they're out there in surpsingly many places), but when the circuit breaker pops 20 minutes later and isn't accessable, then what?

So then the occupant puts a propane heater in there and either asphiates themselves on carbon monoxide, or it bursts into flames. Happens with tents all the time.

The water system? Great idea, but again, yeah, it'll be frozen solid and busted inside the first week.

In actual practice this would end up being just a glorified sleeping box and nothing more. Might as well do away with the cabinets and all that, make it a giant bed on wheels with LOTS of insulation, and hope for the best.



In checking the news it doesn't look like there's been any issues that have made the news at least, so it must be kinda-sorta working at least. But yeah, high monthly operating costs.
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I like the Peterborough model (except for the costs -- they seem outrageous at best). Tough, easy-to-produce units that are self-contained. Communal restrooms, kitchen and showers, 120sq feet of warm private space that includes power and internet. A simple 9000BTU mini-split provides HVAC. Room for a bed, small fridge and desk. And inside a gated community to keep things as safe as possible.

Access means participating in retraining or rehab and following some very simple society rules.

There are countless places these could be located -- under the Gardiner, hydro corridors, Center Island - an a couple in each City of Toronto counselor's yard.
 
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