Getting my basement finished..lost

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01cbr said:
Without plans it turns into "you were supposed to put 6 potlights here not 4"........"why arent there any outlets on this wall"...........why the **** did this get drywalled???

Did a home reno with no drawings this summer that was more of a headache than it needed to be.

With a drawing and material specs its all laid out on paper. This is what we agreed on....anything different is costing one side or the other.
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^^^^ this

our basement reno had a couple of changes during the build (which will always happen) that revised the estimate mid-way....one in my favour and the other in the contractor's favour

1) quote called for 28 pot lights....and during the build we realised 37 pot lights were needed, plus 3 sconce lights were added, as well a few more outlets
2) we thought during the quote that putting in a heated floor in the laundry was a good idea and then nixed that at the start of the build

having the detailed estimate made it dead-nuts simple for both me and the contractor to add and deduct...so both of us felt everything was being fairly compensated

my final tab was a bit higher than the estimate due to the changes but I felt everything was totally fair because the details were right in front of my face on paper from the start

detailed plans are a benefit for all involved.....as much for the contractor as it is for the home owner

I ended up doing the demolition on my reno because the quote showed the separate out-of-pocket they would charge and I thought it was a bit steep for sledge-hammer and pry-bar work (he admitted they price demo a bit high because they never know what they'll find), and that if I did it myself I could still utilize my gym equipment right up to the last minute....and I could do the demo without having a big bin sitting on my driveway.....contractor was totally cool about it....and I saved a good bunch of money

I can totally understand how both contractors and home owners get jaded opinions based on the inevitable horror stories from both sides....but I can't see any downside when you start the project with as many itemized details as possible


I had a similar experience with the guys I hired to build my deck....his estimate was sooooo detailed it kinda blew my mind.....15 pages long...not kidding....but this was a 400 sq foot multi-level deck made out of Ipe.....the initial quote had the deck spec-d out at 420 sq ft....the finished product was 390 sq ft.....but due to his detailed quote, and the staggering price of Ipe....every element was revised (decking, skirting, length of steps etc) and I saved quite a bit of money...but the contractor was adamant that I wasn't paying for an extra inch of material regardless.....was another great reno experience
 
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GateKeeper said:
how do I as a consumer know the cost of something, lke I said, homedepot sells trim for 4 bucks a foot Rex lumber sells it for 1.20 if u don't know about Rex lumber how do I knoe if I am paying too much or too little, your trying to tell me I as the homeowner is privy to the same price as a contractor, I don't think so, but if u r going to give your clients that price, well then you r screwing them on the labour otherwise I don't get how u r making money

perhaps

You are right and I am wrong, done.
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very simple, you know the cost or price of something by getting several competitive quotes, so regardless of what REX lumber charges you for trim you need to stay competitive with the market as a contractor, so if the going rate is $5/lft of installed trim, and you are bidding a job against other contractors if you are smart and can make a profit at $5/fts thats what you will charge in order to get the job.
As an owner once you get your 3 estimates you can compare them : XYZ cntracting charges me $3k for the trim, ABC gontracting is almost the same at $2940, but FU contracting is out to lunch at $5k, or maybe he is pricing the stain grade trim that you asked for, while the other 2 are pricing paint grade MDF? either way its a red flag that will hopefully make you ask a question.
Or the tile is off by $1500, is it because one contractor is using Carrera Marble like you asked, and the other one is trying to do it with a Chinese knock off that "is just as good"?
Most contractors get materials at the same prices (+/- 10%) so there shouldn't be a huge variation in the price of trim because ABC, XYZ, and FU contracting all have accounts at REX lumber, Brenlo, and Central, not at Home Depot.
 
82Seca750 said:
^^^^ this

our basement reno had a couple of changes during the build (which will always happen) that revised the estimate mid-way....one in my favour and the other in the contractor's favour

1) quote called for 28 pot lights....and during the build we realised 37 pot lights were needed, plus 3 sconce lights were added, as well a few more outlets
2) we thought during the quote that putting in a heated floor in the laundry was a good idea and then nixed that at the start of the build

having the detailed estimate made it dead-nuts simple for both me and the contractor to add and deduct...so both of us felt everything was being fairly compensated

my final tab was a bit higher than the estimate due to the changes but I felt everything was totally fair because the details were right in front of my face on paper from the start

detailed plans are a benefit for all involved.....as much for the contractor as it is for the home owner

I ended up doing the demolition on my reno because the quote showed the separate out-of-pocket they would charge and I thought it was a bit steep for sledge-hammer and pry-bar work (he admitted they price demo a bit high because they never know what they'll find), and that if I did it myself I could still utilize my gym equipment right up to the last minute....and I could do the demo without having a big bin sitting on my driveway.....contractor was totally cool about it....and I saved a good bunch of money

I can totally understand how both contractors and home owners get jaded opinions based on the inevitable horror stories from both sides....but I can't see any downside when you start the project with as many itemized details as possible


I had a similar experience with the guys I hired to build my deck....his estimate was sooooo detailed it kinda blew my mind.....15 pages long...not kidding....but this was a 400 sq foot multi-level deck made out of Ipe.....the initial quote had the deck spec-d out at 420 sq ft....the finished product was 390 sq ft.....but due to his detailed quote, and the staggering price of Ipe....every element was revised (decking, skirting, length of steps etc) and I saved quite a bit of money...but the contractor was adamant that I wasn't paying for an extra inch of material regardless.....was another great reno experience
Click to expand...

this
 
Paperwork, documentation some people don't like it. I'm working at a solar farm now with 2 dozen guys plus foreman and assistant. I have yet to see anything written down or referred too. No material, tool or consumables requests have been written down. Sometimes you get, sometimes you don't. It's a mess. Some people really struggle with organization. I would not hire a contractor who's all about nodding in agreement but pencil shy.
 
I guess since I have never had work done by a contractor that wasn't very well known to me, I'm a bit on the fence about the need for detail. And even on large projects its always been time and materials. Fairly accurate estimates given first and regular meetings of "where we are at" has always worked. But I can certainly see it going off the rails.
Commercial millwork has to be the worst. Restaurants get designers to draw a patio, no spec on how to anchor a rail into concrete floor and an historic building with a no drilling into the building rule. And they all stare when the estimates are 12k apart.

My favorite gong show of the winter is the Oakville Center for the performing arts, stage change rooms getting a do over. huge countertops with a 90d sq front edge. In the draweings its a 90d sq front edge. The architect says thats not what I wanted , I want a rolled edge, but dude you drew a square edge. Well yeah but thats not what I meant.
The concrete walls were to be ceramic tiled, but no where in the specification sheet does it say level and fair out the walls first or plywood them first it just says `tile manufacturer xx, appropriate adhesive, grout color xx. You should see how awesome 100`s of sq ft of tile that looks like a medievel ruin looks. Tile guy says it to spec and hes right.......sort of.
 
crankcall said:
My favorite gong show of the winter is the Oakville Center for the performing arts, stage change rooms getting a do over. huge countertops with a 90d sq front edge. In the draweings its a 90d sq front edge. The architect says thats not what I wanted , I want a rolled edge, but dude you drew a square edge. Well yeah but thats not what I meant.
The concrete walls were to be ceramic tiled, but no where in the specification sheet does it say level and fair out the walls first or plywood them first it just says `tile manufacturer xx, appropriate adhesive, grout color xx. You should see how awesome 100`s of sq ft of tile that looks like a medievel ruin looks. Tile guy says it to spec and hes right.......sort of.
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This is the beauty of the construction business. Charge backs and items which were not detailed to the max can be interpreted in any way shape or form and the contractor can say 'but I'm to spec so that's that'. That's how a lot of contractors make money. Bid low on jobs because they can see the drawings don't show the details and then when the owner/engineer shows up and says to change it the contractor's eyes light up with $$$. Can't leave anything to interpretation by the contractor because if you do, he will go with what is in spec, not what the engineer 'meant to say'.
 
crankcall said:
I guess since I have never had work done by a contractor that wasn't very well known to me, I'm a bit on the fence about the need for detail. And even on large projects its always been time and materials. Fairly accurate estimates given first and regular meetings of "where we are at" has always worked. But I can certainly see it going off the rails.
Commercial millwork has to be the worst. Restaurants get designers to draw a patio, no spec on how to anchor a rail into concrete floor and an historic building with a no drilling into the building rule. And they all stare when the estimates are 12k apart.

My favorite gong show of the winter is the Oakville Center for the performing arts, stage change rooms getting a do over. huge countertops with a 90d sq front edge. In the draweings its a 90d sq front edge. The architect says thats not what I wanted , I want a rolled edge, but dude you drew a square edge. Well yeah but thats not what I meant.
The concrete walls were to be ceramic tiled, but no where in the specification sheet does it say level and fair out the walls first or plywood them first it just says `tile manufacturer xx, appropriate adhesive, grout color xx. You should see how awesome 100`s of sq ft of tile that looks like a medievel ruin looks. Tile guy says it to spec and hes right.......sort of.
Click to expand...

thats where detailed shop drawings are required, and well documented RFI's will save your @SS
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