Getting my basement finished..lost

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Whatever.....

some of you want a complete itemized list, and then some of you don't, well you can't have it both ways.....

one can provide you with a scope of work that will be done and the cost, that don't mean one gets all the detail in that quote, price for drywall, studs, paint, screws etc....but it will include at the least, scope of the work, we will frame the basement, we will do the electrical, the plumbing, the drywall, the painting, the trim, hang doors, install counters, cabinets, do tiles and so on....but none of that needs to have a cost for each item

I am sure if we were sitting down in a bar talking we would all come to the same conclusion, I just think some of us don't understand what each one of us is saying.....

You don't have to worry about hiring me, I don't do this type of work

I am sure the OP got a good idea of the scope of work he was getting for his 30-40 K, but I am sure it was not itemized to the extent some of you are looking for, and I would image most would not provide that.....and don't need too

like I said, the OP don't need to know the price of a sheet of drywall, he just needs to know it will be drywalled in the price he was given, not once it's all done and all they did was insulation and a vapour barrier

I guess an itemized list of what will be done, but not an itemized price for each and every component in that build

@ mbroyda - can I call you for that itemized quote, I will have work needing to be done this summer, I am being serious, and not sarcastic...
 
crankcall said:
This is pretty open ended, its a finished basement. Do you really need plans and prints to finish a large open space , a couple closets and a 2 pc crapper station? The same area can cost 12k, 20k, or 40k. just know what your getting and get what you pay for.
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Without plans it turns into "you were supposed to put 6 potlights here not 4"........"why arent there any outlets on this wall"...........why the **** did this get drywalled???

Did a home reno with no drawings this summer that was more of a headache than it needed to be.

With a drawing and material specs its all laid out on paper. This is what we agreed on....anything different is costing one side or the other.
 
I've worked with my dad for years on basements, kitchens, bathrooms and general renos and very seldom do clients request a detailed quote to the level you guys are talking about.

We have no problem providing it, and have never had a client dispute the charges or have any crap with payment after the job is done. You just have to be clear.

When we redid a basement after a flood the insurance company wanted a breakdown of the work to be completed, but not an itemized list stating each item and their corresponding price. I don't think we'd break it down to that level anyway but if a client requested it then they'd be able to get it.

Don't ever give up too much $ up front because that's a great way a lot of contractors get your money, and then take their sweet time to finish up the work....perfect example being here....

http://toronto.ctvnews.ca/toronto-homebuilder-investigated-after-projects-left-unfinished-1.2178098#
 
If you're making changes to the foundation (walk out entry to the basement) you probably will will need a building permit too, contractor should probably handle that. Don't know if you need a building permit to do the rest of the basement, I know I did when I put in a woodstove, I found this out when I called insurance and they wanted a WETT inspection, when googling for WETT inspectors I found the municipality wanted me to get a building permit (which included a WETT inspection), a WETT inspector I spoke to claimed otherwise... thing is without a building permit the city can come back and make you undo the changes or make other requests to cause you headaches and fine you. Without the walk in entry they may never find out but in every neighbourhood there's always rats. I have two immediate neighbours, one on the right about 200 metres away and the other one across the street 400 metres the other direction. Both myself and my closer neighbour have had bylaw come by for various things, like to check how many dogs I have and if my dog had dog tags, neighbour put on a deck and neglected to get a building permit so they want him to make changes and are fining him. We're 20 minutes out in the country with the only traffic going to access dead end streets past us, bylaw has better things to do than come checking on those things so there's a rat in the neighbourhood. My point is you want to make sure all the paperwork is in order.
 
CruisnGrrl makes a pretty important point. In reality if there's a new bathroom going in there should be a permit pulled and electrical should have a permit pulled and altering a foundation should have a permit. Building inspectors don`t want to make your life miserable, they are just trying to make sure your project is safe and to code. There are too many shortcutters in the lucrative basement finishing field.
 
I'd never bother with permits for building a bathroom, but for the walk-out it's absolutely essential that someone who knows what they're doing makes a plan of attack and gets a permit. Personally I'd contract that part out separately from finishing the basement.
 
GateKeeper said:
The OP wants a finished basement, what does he care what you spent on drywall, or tiles, or whatever, it's really of no use to him, it's a package deal for a finished basement...

so you have some drywall left over from a previous job, or some fell off the back of a truck, your going to tell me that 10 sheets are costing me nothing because you didn't pay for them, sure you will....

I think your 10 years is not enough,,,,,next time I need work done at my place, I am going to call you for a quote, I will have a really good idea on what you pay for material, and I will make sure I can find it somewhere cheaper, buy it and then have you just do the labour for the price you have given me, I am sure you will include your labour price separate as well,,,,right....

let me see a linear foot of trim is 4 bucks at HomeDepot, but I can get it at Rex Lumber for 1.20, are you really going to tell me this......

A gallon of paint is 50 bucks at homedepot, I can get it at Benjamin Moore for 26 bucks, I am going to tell you that.....I don't think so, but to paint your room its 150 bucks, so who cares how much the paint is....the OP is not buying the paint and or doing the painting

What I will tell you is to finish your basement as per your request will cost you 40K, how I got to that is my business, I am sure if I charged you 100 bucks a sheet of drywall and free labour or showed you a price just for labour and said the drywall is free, it won't make a difference, all the OP is interested is in how much the finished basement will cost him.....

in a complete finished basement, a break down is not necessary as it serves no point.....

?
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you are missing my point, I could care less how much one paid for a bucket of paint, or a stud or a piece of drywall, no one prices anything like that, normally things like framing or drywall are priced per sq foot, paint is priced per room in residential, or pet sq foot in commercial, cabinetry is priced per linear foot, so is trim carpentry electrical is priced per fixture, so is plumbing, repairs are priced differently (time & materials) etc... so if I am the owner and you are the contractor and you give me a lump sum of $40k, to do my basement which will consist of a 3pc bathroom a small bedroom, and an entertaining area with a wet bar in the corner, then you start the job and once the studs are up you ask me for $20k how do I know if that is a fair payment for the work that had been completed? because in reality you only spent $2k to frame, and only did 30% of the rough in which we will call another $1000 for the sake of argument, so I just over paid you by $17k which is more than the profit on a $40k job, now what's to stop you from flipping me the bird once the cheque clears and going on your way with $17k in your pocket? (if you think that doesn't happened you are living in lala land)
Well if you would have given me a break down that said the framing, drywall and taping is a total of $5k, and rough in is another $3k, tile and flooring is $3k, electrical and mech finishes is $3k, trim carpentry is $2k, millwork is $3k and paint is $1000 I have a much better idea of how much to pay you on Friday afternoon.
It also helps in comparing quotes to see how much a contractor allocated for each item, sometimes red flags pop up that tell you a contractor missed something that he will want as an extra later in the project or is overcharging you for something else.

accepting lump sum prices without a break down is begging for problems, and a proper cost break down serves many many other purposes which I don't really feel like typing up right now
 
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GateKeeper said:
Whatever.....

some of you want a complete itemized list, and then some of you don't, well you can't have it both ways.....

one can provide you with a scope of work that will be done and the cost, that don't mean one gets all the detail in that quote, price for drywall, studs, paint, screws etc....but it will include at the least, scope of the work, we will frame the basement, we will do the electrical, the plumbing, the drywall, the painting, the trim, hang doors, install counters, cabinets, do tiles and so on....but none of that needs to have a cost for each item

I am sure if we were sitting down in a bar talking we would all come to the same conclusion, I just think some of us don't understand what each one of us is saying.....

You don't have to worry about hiring me, I don't do this type of work

I am sure the OP got a good idea of the scope of work he was getting for his 30-40 K, but I am sure it was not itemized to the extent some of you are looking for, and I would image most would not provide that.....and don't need too

like I said, the OP don't need to know the price of a sheet of drywall, he just needs to know it will be drywalled in the price he was given, not once it's all done and all they did was insulation and a vapour barrier

I guess an itemized list of what will be done, but not an itemized price for each and every component in that build

@ mbroyda - can I call you for that itemized quote, I will have work needing to be done this summer, I am being serious, and not sarcastic...
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If its anything other than residential I would love to help you with that, shoot me a PM, unfortunately I don't really get involved with residential projects, but if you want my opinion on some prices you got for residential work I could probably help you with. that
 
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suzuki2000 said:
unfortunately the pricing sounds about reasonable depending on finishes. But like most have said the job you are asking for has some complicated things, and if they aren't done right you are in for a world of hurt and aggravation.

I think you need to call either of these guys
mikeholmespic-MEDIUM.jpg


or
Bryan-Baeumler.jpg
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I always love the way that they put drywall on bass ackwards on T.V.
A friend was on one of those renovation shows, and they actually came in early and painted her off-white bedroom this hideous purple colour, then came back for the show, and told her how hideous it was, and that it needed to be changed.
These things are made to look good on T.V. Would you want Dog looking for your fugitive?
 
mbroyda said:
you are missing my point, I could care less how much one paid for a bucket of paint, or a stud or a piece of drywall, no one prices anything like that, normally things like framing or drywall are priced per sq foot, paint is priced per room in residential, or pet sq foot in commercial, cabinetry is priced per linear foot, so is trim carpentry electrical is priced per fixture, so is plumbing, repairs are priced differently (time & materials) etc... so if I am the owner and you are the contractor and you give me a lump sum of $40k, to do my basement which will consist of a 3pc bathroom a small bedroom, and an entertaining area with a wet bar in the corner, then you start the job and once the studs are up you ask me for $20k how do I know if that is a fair payment for the work that had been completed? because in reality you only spent $2k to frame, and only did 30% of the rough in which we will call another $1000 for the sake of argument, so I just over paid you by $17k which is more than the profit on a $40k job, now what's to stop you from flipping me the bird once the cheque clears and going on your way with $17k in your pocket? (if you think that doesn't happened you are living in lala land)
Well if you would have given me a break down that said the framing, drywall and taping is a total of $5k, and rough in is another $3k, tile and flooring is $3k, electrical and mech finishes is $3k, trim carpentry is $2k, millwork is $3k and paint is $1000 I have a much better idea of how much to pay you on Friday afternoon.
It also helps in comparing quotes to see how much a contractor allocated for each item, sometimes red flags pop up that tell you a contractor missed something that he will want as an extra later in the project or is overcharging you for something else.

accepting lump sum prices without a break down is begging for problems, and a proper cost break down serves many many other purposes which I don't really feel like typing up right now
Click to expand...

Again you want too much of a break down

so if I am the owner and you are the contractor and you give me a lump sum of $40k, to do my basement which will consist of a 3pc bathroom a small bedroom, and an entertaining area with a wet bar in the corner, then you start the job and once the studs are up you ask me for $20k how do I know if that is a fair payment for the work that had been completed?

you don't know if it's fair or not, all you know is it's 40k for a finished basement, why would I be asking for another 20k, it's really not the homeowners worry on what your going to spend on the various portions of the job

I just want a finished basement for 40k, how you get there is none of my business, it's an agreed price you and I got too, only time it should go up is if some unforseen issue come up, asbestos removal, clogged pipes, stuff one cannot see.....

most times it works this way, we agree on a price, we then do 20% to start, then 20%, then 20%, and the last could be 40% once finished and I am satisfied....typically 20 percent is held back, some my numbers are not exact, but you get the idea

I have yet to deal with a contractor that breaks it down the way you show....

Well if you would have given me a break down that said the framing, drywall and taping is a total of $5k, and rough in is another $3k, tile and flooring is $3k, electrical and mech finishes is $3k, trim carpentry is $2k, millwork is $3k and paint is $1000 I have a much better idea of how much to pay you on Friday afternoon.


I don't see why the need for such a break down as above, your going to tell me he will only frame 90 percent, or not drywall everything, or skimp on tiles and so on.....your deal was for a finished basement.....even if the electrical is too high for you, it's part of the entire package deal, you can't tell the contractor don't do it, I will get someone else to do the electrical......or the tile guy or the trim guy,,,,,you asked for a finished basement....

if someone really wants that kind of break down, measure out all you will need, go to HomeDepost and cost it out on your own....unfortunately it will be off, because like I said I can get trim for 1.20 a foot where HD charges 4 bucks, so unless you now to go to Rex Lumber you are going to be paying a lot more for your trim....now if a customer is that adamant about a price breakdown, I would add 30 percent is not more and give you the price, it will be less than HD and more than what Rex sells it for and you will be happy....


if you find that enough work is not being done, don't pay......
 
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The main thing with the permits even if you nix the walk out so you don't have to worry about structural changes if there's ever an issue in the future (ie a fire) the paperwork has been done and you have less issues with insurance and the other powers that can make your life miserable. However having a finished basement could raise your taxes.
 
Are you the least bit handy and not in a hurry? One option is to DIY it. I did mine several years ago, for $12K in materials, would have been 30+ for a 1200 sq basement with a full bathroom. People tell me it looks great, and it was a satisfying accomplishment.
 
GateKeeper said:
Again you want too much of a break down

so if I am the owner and you are the contractor and you give me a lump sum of $40k, to do my basement which will consist of a 3pc bathroom a small bedroom, and an entertaining area with a wet bar in the corner, then you start the job and once the studs are up you ask me for $20k how do I know if that is a fair payment for the work that had been completed?

you don't know if it's fair or not, all you know is it's 40k for a finished basement, why would I be asking for another 20k, it's really not the homeowners worry on what your going to spend on the various portions of the job

I just want a finished basement for 40k, how you get there is none of my business, it's an agreed price you and I got too, only time it should go up is if some unforseen issue come up, asbestos removal, clogged pipes, stuff one cannot see.....

most times it works this way, we agree on a price, we then do 20% to start, then 20%, then 20%, and the last could be 40% once finished and I am satisfied....typically 20 percent is held back, some my numbers are not exact, but you get the idea

I have yet to deal with a contractor that breaks it down the way you show....

Well if you would have given me a break down that said the framing, drywall and taping is a total of $5k, and rough in is another $3k, tile and flooring is $3k, electrical and mech finishes is $3k, trim carpentry is $2k, millwork is $3k and paint is $1000 I have a much better idea of how much to pay you on Friday afternoon.


I don't see why the need for such a break down as above, your going to tell me he will only frame 90 percent, or not drywall everything, or skimp on tiles and so on.....your deal was for a finished basement.....even if the electrical is too high for you, it's part of the entire package deal, you can't tell the contractor don't do it, I will get someone else to do the electrical......or the tile guy or the trim guy,,,,,you asked for a finished basement....

if someone really wants that kind of break down, measure out all you will need, go to HomeDepost and cost it out on your own....unfortunately it will be off, because like I said I can get trim for 1.20 a foot where HD charges 4 bucks, so unless you now to go to Rex Lumber you are going to be paying a lot more for your trim....now if a customer is that adamant about a price breakdown, I would add 30 percent is not more and give you the price, it will be less than HD and more than what Rex sells it for and you will be happy....


if you find that enough work is not being done, don't pay......
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so you are saying that as a client its better to have less information, and less control over what a contractor is doing at your house??? does that make sense to you?
how do you know the value of 20% if you don't know what the components cost??
you need that break down to compare with the other quotes you are getting, or do you not need these either??? because all you need to know is that $40k = a finished basement, better to just put your blinders on and not ask too many questions, god forbid you learn something and make an informed decision.

i'm not sure if you are continuing to argue this point because you actually believe what you are saying, and it somehow makes sense in your head or because you just don't want to admit you are wrong.
 
If you have a detailed drawing and specification sheet you could cross reference that to the work done as payments are made. How much itemizing does that require?
 
mbroyda said:
so you are saying that as a client its better to have less information, and less control over what a contractor is doing at your house??? does that make sense to you?
how do you know the value of 20% if you don't know what the components cost??
you need that break down to compare with the other quotes you are getting, or do you not need these either??? because all you need to know is that $40k = a finished basement, better to just put your blinders on and not ask too many questions, god forbid you learn something and make an informed decision.

i'm not sure if you are continuing to argue this point because you actually believe what you are saying, and it somehow makes sense in your head or because you just don't want to admit you are wrong.
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how do I as a consumer know the cost of something, lke I said, homedepot sells trim for 4 bucks a foot Rex lumber sells it for 1.20 if u don't know about Rex lumber how do I knoe if I am paying too much or too little, your trying to tell me I as the homeowner is privy to the same price as a contractor, I don't think so, but if u r going to give your clients that price, well then you r screwing them on the labour otherwise I don't get how u r making money

perhaps

You are right and I am wrong, done.
 
Small point for guys doing some DIY, you can literally save a bundle buying where installers buy, not Home Depot or Lowes. Small comparison with last weeks fixes,
extra thick toilet gasket ; Lowes $5.99, Rona 3.91
Color match Mapei caulk; Lowes 14.99, Rona 10.99
poplar base and casing; Home depot 4.95 ft, Eastwood 2.40ft

yes you can spend your life running around, box store have great prices on big ticket items, but all the bits to hook up a sink or tub, or light fixture can cost 25-35% more on blind product ( the stuff you need but pay no attention to).
 
crankcall said:
yes you can spend your life running around, box store have great prices on big ticket items, but all the bits to hook up a sink or tub, or light fixture can cost 25-35% more on blind product ( the stuff you need but pay no attention to).
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Oh ya! Sometimes I'm amazed how cheap a stud is when thinking of the process involved to get it to the store. But so much of the other stuff is like boutique shopping. Running around is no good but I justify higher prices because "imagine how much this would cost a non-diy guy". Almost seems like a bargain. Is not.
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