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Generators

Great! you got your 60amp transfer switch :/ at what 120 volts or 220 volts. You have enough to power that much of a service and no more,
you can not plug a 100amp 220volt house service into that.

'At first glance, I would say that specifically does not require the neutral to the grid to be broken. With a two-pole switch, it can't affect the neutral."
Your logic is sound they are all going to ground. until it gets hit by lightning anyway then it all kinda goes to the best ground.
 
GreyGhost said:
This part from your link is interesting.
" For small single-phase services with the meter outside, the transfer switch shall be a 3-pole double throw switch for a grounded neutral generator and a 2-pole double throw switch for a “floating” neutral generator. "

At first glance, I would say that specifically does not require the neutral to the grid to be broken. With a two-pole switch, it can't affect the neutral.
Click to expand...

Irregardless, if you are installing a transfer switch outside by the meter base, then the odds are good its going to be an Automatic transfer switch that's service entrance rated. As long as it has the cUL listings and/or CSA ratings, NO inspector or utility that I personally know of would deny this installation.
 
Trials said:
Great! you got your 60amp transfer switch :/ at what 120 volts or 220 volts. You have enough to power that much of a service and no more,
you can not plug a 100amp 220volt house service into that.
Click to expand...

How many 100amp portable generators do you know of that are readily available? Most of the bigger portables are 12k-14 kW or so, good for up to 50+ amps. So a 60amp generator panel makes perfect sense.
 
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SunnY S said:
Irregardless, if you are installing a transfer switch outside by the meter base, then the odds are good its going to be an Automatic transfer switch that's service entrance rated. As long as it has the cUL listings and/or CSA ratings, NO inspector or utility that I personally know of would deny this installation.
Click to expand...
You still need to decide on the size of the transfer switch, you can power your entire house, or just the essentials.
... my generator just kicked on to waste my weekly 20 minutes of propane.
 
Trials said:
You still need to decide on the size of the transfer switch, you can power your entire house, or just the essentials.
... my generator just kicked on to waste my weekly 20 minutes of propane.
Click to expand...

if you are doing whole house automatic transfer switch, you have to size the transfer switch to the house service. typically 100amp or 200amp. If you go with 60 amp generator panel, you have to move selected circuits over to the generator panel, then plug in your portable up to 60amps.

You have decide what system works for you and your budget. Standby generators are the best, but cost more.
 
Generator panel is inside right next to your other panels, the generator is in a vented steel enclosure with its own battery to start and power the generator switch when the hydro goes dead, without that you do not have an automatic system, remember, the hydro just went dead :|
 
GreyGhost said:
This part from your link is interesting.
" For small single-phase services with the meter outside, the transfer switch shall be a 3-pole double throw switch for a grounded neutral generator and a 2-pole double throw switch for a “floating” neutral generator. "

At first glance, I would say that specifically does not require the neutral to the grid to be broken. With a two-pole switch, it can't affect the neutral.
Click to expand...

In a rural setting, neutral goes to ground, as in a post driven into the earth, and not back to the grid.
Saves wire.
 
bitzz said:

LMGTFY - Let Me Google That For You

For all those people who find it more convenient to bother you with their question rather than to Google it for themselves.
lmgtfy.com lmgtfy.com
Click to expand...

See post 76.

We are governed under Ontario Electrical Code. NOT the Canadian Electrical Code which is in your Google link.

As agreed upon in your Ottawa ONTARIO link (see post 76)
The practice I mentioned is accepted in Ontario and perfomed widely.

I could care less for Canada codes as I don't practice outside of this province.
 
bitzz said:
In a rural setting, neutral goes to ground, as in a post driven into the earth, and not back to the grid.
Saves wire.
Click to expand...
Even in the woods we have both and I'm pretty sure every one of my poles has its own ground rod.
Everything needs to go to ground, houses burn up when they can't use or put enough of the hydro to ground.

The top wire (feeding your house transformer) will kill you and the bottom one does not scare me one bit, unless there is some reason for it to be powered up like lightning or a branch on the line, or a line on the line ... etc. etc. That's why you will see hydro workers put jumper cables on them when they are working on a suppose to remain dead wire.

Just so we're clear here, you DO know Ontario is part of Canada
& hooked to the same grid as the rest of north america. ;) US buys hydro from us and us includes Quebec.
Ontario codes will pass in every provence or we have a huge problem.
 
bitzz said:
Just so we're clear here, you DO know Ontario is part of Canada
Click to expand...

Correct. And for whatever reason.

We are governed under the Ontario Electrical Code which is slightly different and supersedes the Canadian Electrical Code.

Ontario has its "own" electrical code book as opposed to Canada
 
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My parents got a price for a standby generator. They are getting old, in the country and now stuck at home for the winter. Any comments/feedback appreciated (especially from people like @SunnY S as he deals with them regularly). Seems a little big to me but I doubt that will matter much in the price and too small would be annoying.

1800 sq ft bungalow, heat pump, propane furnace and hwt. Wood stove when they feel like it.

Proposed:
Generac #7226 18KW Air cooled on LPG
200A automatic transfer at service entrance
Precast concrete pad
Trenching for LPG and power (my guess is ~125')
Permits & Inspections
$14,250

Questions:
3600 rpm generator a good idea? It looks like 1800 rpm pushes you into a liquid cooled four cylinder so the price bump would probably be substantial.
18 KW reasonable? Would another size make more sense (obviously I have only provided a rough idea of loads but it should be close)?
Air-cooled vs liquid-cooled?
Cold-weather kit (battery/crankcase heater) required/recommended?
 
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They are noisy, try to locate it somewhere that won't be a huge problem, under some snow shelter is also good, like under a second story outside deck sitting on your concrete pad ;)
 
Liquid cooled generators are considerably more quiet. The battery does not seem to be a problem outside, my understanding is it has a charge circuit in addition to the weekly 20 minute test.
18kw sounds right for the house size, you need a big peanut tank to get the pressure/volume. Horizontal tanks have more surface area then the vertical cylinder tanks for the propane to gas off.
 
18 kW?! That is an insane amount of power unless ones entire house is heated with electric baseboards or something. I don’t think I’ve ever seen our house hit 18kw even with virtually everything I have in the house turned on plus both EV’s charging and the hot tub running.

Honestly, If they’re willing to load shed a little and use just the essentials plus their heating during an outage, something literally half that size sill still power that entire house quite nicely. And will save them a ton of expense installing it and fuel for running it too with only a few thousand watts load on it probably 90% of the time.

I can run the furnace and fridge plus some lights and the TV / internet hardware on a 3500w generator. Even on my little 2000w inverter generator with some load shedding at times, IE making sure the fridge and furnace don’t come on at the same time etc.

Some generator salesman is trying to put a kid through college with that quote.
 
Rural homes have water pump systems.
 
GreyGhost said:
My parents got a price for a standby generator. They are getting old, in the country and now stuck at home for the winter. Any comments/feedback appreciated (especially from people like @SunnY S as he deals with them regularly). Seems a little big to me but I doubt that will matter much in the price and too small would be annoying.

1800 sq ft bungalow, heat pump, propane furnace and hwt. Wood stove when they feel like it.

Proposed:
Generac #7226 18KW Air cooled on LPG
200A automatic transfer at service entrance
Precast concrete pad
Trenching for LPG and power (my guess is ~125')
Permits & Inspections
$14,250

Questions:
3600 rpm generator a good idea? It looks like 1800 rpm pushes you into a liquid cooled four cylinder so the price bump would probably be substantial.
18 KW reasonable? Would another size make more sense (obviously I have only provided a rough idea of loads but it should be close)?
Air-cooled vs liquid-cooled?
Cold-weather kit (battery/crankcase heater) required/recommended?
Click to expand...

That price isn't far off.

Ignore the clueless post from PP. Many of my customers are older and AC is critical for them. Most AC units hog 20 to 30 or even 40 or more amps of power. His lame suggestion of 3500w (that's only 15 amps!!) shows he has no clue.

14kw is min I would go. 18 to 22 is even better.

My installs run 10 to 12g. And that doesn't include gas or trenching

Generators prices have risen sharply and are hard to get now. Huge demand in US.
 
GreyGhost said:
My parents got a price for a standby generator. They are getting old, in the country and now stuck at home for the winter. Any comments/feedback appreciated (especially from people like @SunnY S as he deals with them regularly). Seems a little big to me but I doubt that will matter much in the price and too small would be annoying.

1800 sq ft bungalow, heat pump, propane furnace and hwt. Wood stove when they feel like it.

Proposed:
Generac #7226 18KW Air cooled on LPG
200A automatic transfer at service entrance
Precast concrete pad
Trenching for LPG and power (my guess is ~125')
Permits & Inspections
$14,250

Questions:
3600 rpm generator a good idea? It looks like 1800 rpm pushes you into a liquid cooled four cylinder so the price bump would probably be substantial.
18 KW reasonable? Would another size make more sense (obviously I have only provided a rough idea of loads but it should be close)?
Air-cooled vs liquid-cooled?
Cold-weather kit (battery/crankcase heater) required/recommended?
Click to expand...
I have a 8500w champion standby was 6k installed with automatic transfer switch etc. Runs all important things and my ground source heat pump you can hear it work a bit when the heat pump starts but doesn't seem to bad. It probably should be a 12000w according to all the sizing calculators but does fine . I have a 500gallon propane tank to run it.

Sent from my K87CA using Tapatalk
 
Guess Sunny missed the part about load shedding.

And I never suggested they go with 3500w. I’m saying it works great in a pinch and you can make do with less. My house hovers around 1000w on average and even right now with my Volt charging as well as rest of the house loads I’m sitting at only 5000w.

I suggested 18kw is insane even with AC which might have a 5000-6000w surge but only needs a few thousand once running. Even my ancient 80’s central air only uses ~3500w once it’s running.

If we’re talking an isolated place with outages that can last days or weeks I’m guessing going with a grossly oversized system like that could be worthwhile if you’re an absolutely massive energy hog and can’t or don’t want to sacrifice anything at all without exception, but most people are amazed to discover that even under heavy summer cooling loads and with other stuff running their house may only be hovering around 5000w, maybe surging to 8000w-10000w when they fire up the stove.

I did a load test one day here and struggled to get my house to hit 19kw. I literally had everything I could think of running including both EV’s charging, the oven, all 4 burners on the stove, hot tub, dishwasher, etc etc etc. To me spec’ing a genset to reach that once in a lifetime (and struggled to get there) possibility would seem highly unnecessary. If the power is out I can do without a few things for a few hours.

If we’re talking only occasional outages that might last a few hours and you’re willing to shed some loads for the duration but run the essentials, well, I’m sure they can save a ton buying something smaller and putting it on smaller transfer panel.

But If money is no object, have at it I guess….but to me it seems like installing buying a Peterbilt to haul a utility trailer. It’ll do it, but it’s overkill.
 
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