Generators

[GreyGhost]

@BKnight how much was the unit and how much was the install?...where did you put the unit?...did you need any special permits from your region?...how do you like the generator?

My parents bought a big (7500 or 9500 watt iirc) champion probably 15 years ago for $600. It still works ok for its purpose (power a garage with no grid connection and secondarily backup power). It is not the solution I would want for emergency power. If I decide to incur the expense of backup power, it needs to work easily. I am not interested in tugging and tugging and ether to get it running. One pull and go to bed is what I expect. If I was buying a portable generator for this, I would stick with honda/yamaha etc.

 

[Bobo]

Easiest solution is a meter base plug it goes under the hydro meter and you just plug the 240 cord from a 5000 w or larger generator int it when power goes out. Fully legal and you can just run the Genny in the driveway when power is out.

Sent from my moto g(8) plus using Tapatalk

The product that you’re referring to is made by a company called Generlink.They run about $1000 (plus the cost of a generator).The Generlink along with a 5000w generator will run most homes.Yamaha makes a nice 7500w generator on wheels for $1800 that would leave you with power to spare.The down side is that you have to wheel it up to your meter and plug it in when the power goes out and keep it topped up with gas.For another $2-3k you can get a Generac installed that comes on automatically and will run indefinitely on natural gas.Ive installed both and I think they are the two best options.

 

[ifiddles]

@Bobo thanks, I would prefer a Yamaha (after all, I ride one, so having one to power my house in an outage makes sense )

only problem with that idea is the hydro meters are all at the end of the first house in my row of townhouses (I'm the second house in)...there's a grass walkway between our set and the set beside us...not secure enough to leave sitting there...

also, sorry for my lack of knowledge, but if the power is out, how would plugging this or a meter base plug like @Scuba Steve suggested work?...if the power is out, then there shouldn't be power at the meter?...or am I missing something...

 

[Bobo]

My parents bought a big (7500 or 9500 watt iirc) champion probably 15 years ago for $600. It still works ok for its purpose (power a garage with no grid connection and secondarily backup power). It is not the solution I would want for emergency power. If I decide to incur the expense of backup power, it needs to work easily. I am not interested in tugging and tugging and ether to get it running. One pull and go to bed is what I expect. If I was buying a portable generator for this, I would stick with honda/yamaha etc.

GreyGhost, I would be very careful what brand of generator I would use for home backup.Champion would not be my first choice.Almost every electrical device and appliance has some kind of circuit board in them including your fridge ,furnace etc. and cheaper generators can wreak havoc on them. This became evident to me a few years ago when I started to use LED lighting run off generators when I was working in buildings that I had to shut the power off to.Cheaper generators would make the LED lighting flicker like strobe lights.All generators are not created equal, stick with a Honda or Yamaha, preferably inverter, otherwise plan on paying $500 and up to replace those circuit boards in your appliances.

 

[GreyGhost]

@Bobo thanks, I would prefer a Yamaha (after all, I ride one, so having one to power my house in an outage makes sense )

only problem with that idea is the hydro meters are all at the end of the first house in my row of townhouses (I'm the second house in)...there's a grass walkway between our set and the set beside us...not secure enough to leave sitting there...

also, sorry for my lack of knowledge, but if the power is out, how would plugging this or a meter base plug like @Scuba Steve suggested work?...if the power is out, then there shouldn't be power at the meter?...or am I missing something...

This is a transfer switch. It takes power from either the utility or generator and sends it into your house. Having your meter stick out 10" further than the rest is just asking for someone to accidentally knock off your meter.

 

[Bobo]

@Bobo thanks, I would prefer a Yamaha (after all, I ride one, so having one to power my house in an outage makes sense )

only problem with that idea is the hydro meters are all at the end of the first house in my row of townhouses (I'm the second house in)...there's a grass walkway between our set and the set beside us...not secure enough to leave sitting there...

also, sorry for my lack of knowledge, but if the power is out, how would plugging this or a meter base plug like @Scuba Steve suggested work?...if the power is out, then there shouldn't be power at the meter?...or am I missing

 

[ifiddles]

@Bobo thanks for that video...very interesting...

 

[Bobo]

@Bobo thanks, I would prefer a Yamaha (after all, I ride one, so having one to power my house in an outage makes sense )

only problem with that idea is the hydro meters are all at the end of the first house in my row of townhouses (I'm the second house in)...there's a grass walkway between our set and the set beside us...not secure enough to leave sitting there...

also, sorry for my lack of knowledge, but if the power is out, how would plugging this or a meter base plug like @Scuba Steve suggested work?...if the power is out, then there shouldn't be power at the meter?...or am I missing something...

As GreyGhost said ,it acts as a transfer switch.It has a mechanical interlock.When you plug the chord (included) into the Generlink, it isolates your home from the grid and allows you to safely feed power to your home from your generator.Sounds like it may not be a good option for you due to the location of your meter.

 

[crankcall]

We have 2 gas fireplaces that will start when the power is out, will heat the house adequetly .
I grew up in the country , if we lost power during a winter storm ( house was 1/2km from the road- 4 utility poles to house) frozen food just went in picnic coolers and tossed outside (its winter).
My 2 cents, as I used to sell smaller generators, do not connect sensitive electronics like your laptop or even a smart TV to a chinese wizzbang gen set. Even the circuit boards like you'll find on a Samsung furnaces dont like the electric wave pattern they produce. They are for saws and drills and unsophisticated loads, regardless of the pictures in the brochure of people using them for everything.

You can power anything with them, just not maybe for as long as you thought.....

 

[GreyGhost]

We have 2 gas fireplaces that will start when the power is out, will heat the house adequetly .
I grew up in the country , if we lost power during a winter storm ( house was 1/2km from the road- 4 utility poles to house) frozen food just went in picnic coolers and tossed outside (its winter).
My 2 cents, as I used to sell smaller generators, do not connect sensitive electronics like your laptop or even a smart TV to a chinese wizzbang gen set. Even the circuit boards like you'll find on a Samsung furnaces dont like the electric wave pattern they produce. They are for saws and drills and unsophisticated loads, regardless of the pictures in the brochure of people using them for everything.

You can power anything with them, just not maybe for as long as you thought.....

This point especially applies to pp's invertpr comment. While you can get inverters that produce a nice waveform, they are expensive, most produce a modified wave which is only a few steps and ugly.

 

[Trials]

@ifiddles when you move to the country and build your mansion, plan on a mostly single level building with no basement, heating it with water through the floor and needing about an 18 foot long propane tank. Your house will still need an air exchanger because new homes are sealed so tight. Make sure your country estate has plenty of good well water, it's the most important thing in life. The well needs a pump and if the water lines are prone to freezing, a way to thaw them out when that happens.
Almost everything needs a little bit of electricity to run, but to make heat directly from hydro electric is expensive heat, it is operating off of what is called a resistive load, like a toaster: Cheap to buy and install, very expensive to operate and you still need to move a lot of air around for it to work which makes it inefficient for household heating.

Your built in generator is going to need a battery to start it, that is one of the reasons you run it 20 minutes every week, to test and charge the battery. For some strange reason our propane generator did not come with a battery tender in it ymmv. A propane powered generator will also need its own propane line and a higher pressure regulator then the rest of your household propane appliances. Regulators can be a pain to locate, because they are considered a source of combustion/ignition.

The power inverter technology they were taking about is not the one that runs off your car cigar lighter, it's a different type of power generator.
In the country if you are going to drive a portable power generator off anything, you would drive it off the PTO of your diesel tractor ?

I'm 8 poles off a main grid on primary line, which means you can put your poles much further apart. Hydro went down for 2 weeks straight last year alone, generator paid for itself several times over

 

[nobbie48]

How much power is needed?

My brother lived half way between Barrie and GTA at the bottom of a hill and there were no storm drains, just a sump. During a thunderstorm induced power outage he would lose power and therefore his sump pump, flooding the basement.

I loaned him an old Honda 1400 watt genny and it ran the pump plus a trouble light. Then he upgraded to a 5.5 Kw gas with a transfer switch etc. That way he could light up the place like a Christmas tree and throw a party and slay any lurking monsters. It didn't have autostart so he still had to be home.

A cousin lived in Rochester NY in a smallish 1 1/2 story that had a 120 volt 30 amp service. One 15 amp fuse did the lights and the other did the receptacles. The furnace was gas with convection flow, no fan. The stove was gas as was the clothes drier. You couldn't make toast when the fridge was running etc. They survived, spending a small fortune in fuses.

A decade or so back we had a summer outage in TO. We are in Etobicoke and our power was out for a day. A buddy 3 miles from us was out for days. He moved their perishables to his MILs three blocks away. She never lost power at all.

I have two portable Hondas 2Kw and 2.5 Kw but with the exception of a snow blower no reason to keep gas on hand in Gerry cans. During the summer outage I also had a 1Kw and loaned it to a neighbour with kids so they could fry an egg or heat a can of soup on a hotplate, small burner.

It wouldn't bother me to go all out survivalist with 10Kw but other than the shed (Problematic) I have nowhere to put the beast where it wouldn't be an eyesore. Then do I have to share when the apocalypse comes?

Transferring from emergency to standard power can be done with an expensive transfer switch and appropriate dual supply receptacles. It can be done cheaply and dangerously by widow maker cheater cords. It can be done safely and cheaply but illegally by a knowledgeable person. Who decides.

 

[J_F]

solar panels and battery array?

no noise, no fuel

 

[GreyGhost]

solar panels and battery array?

no noise, no fuel

Most expensive solution by far. If she wants to go this way, I can put her in touch with a friend that has been in the business since mcguinty started wasting money.

 

[J_F]

does the province still have the rebate thingy for energy system upgrades?

was awhile ago, but I switched out an electric furnace for HE propane
bought one with the variable DC motor as they had a big rebate
did the heat loss test first, then the furnace install

then applied for the rebate
ended up pocketing some dough on that deal

whole home solar/battery would be nuts for sure
and OP may not have enough roof for solar

could identify a few essential circuits/devices and look at PV for them
sure, not gonna be affordable, but where a genset is not viable, it is an option

 

[PrivatePilot]

I had a 3500w Champion Generator that travelled coast to coast with us in the back of my pickup truck (and rode there 12 months of the year, at that, for about 5 years) that we used when we had our 5th wheel. ALWAYS started first pull, would run the big roof mounted AC unit on the roof of the trailer as well as every other appliance, and never caused me an ounce of problems. Sold it 5 years later for $50 less than I paid for it. It's actually a pretty solid brand.

Problem is...it was an open frame single-speed (non inverter style) generator. Fine for running when noise wasn't a concern. Eventually upgraded to a Honda EU2000i inverter generator which was the cats meow (quiet, even under heavy loads, nearly silent from 50 feet under light load) but waaaay more expensive. But for us it was the difference of being able to run it in the non-electrical areas of campgrounds all while still having all the creature comforts in our RV, but (most importantly) not being "That guy" with a loud generator wrecking the serenity. I put it in the bed of the truck, pulled the toneau partly over it (damped noise, still allowed ventilation), and it while running at low RPM just charging my golf cart batteries, barely audible even on our own campsite.

Back on the topic of "powering your house during an ice storm", my inverter solution has kept us afloat (furnace, fridge, and electronics/TV) for 24 hours before, although I know it's not for everyone, and it's also not automatic by any means.

Fiddles, it seems what you're looking for is a fully automatic standby generator. Look online at Home Depot's website, they sell the Generac models - I actually deliver them to a lot of the stores. The smaller (6000w) units can be had for <$3000, although you'll easily be in for probably another $2K for installation by the time you have a gasfitter run the gas lines and an electrician do the wiring. But it's going to do what you want it to do...as long as you can get it situated somewhere permanent where the gas and electrical hookups are workable given your housing situation. And 6000w is plenty for careful usage, even being enough to run an element on the stove or small appliances like a toaster oven so long as you're not trying to run everything that's high demand at the same time.

 

[GreyGhost]

I had a 3500w Champion Generator that travelled coast to coast with us in the back of my pickup truck (and rode there 12 months of the year, at that, for about 5 years) that we used when we had our 5th wheel. ALWAYS started first pull, would run the big roof mounted AC unit on the roof of the trailer as well as every other appliance, and never caused me an ounce of problems. Sold it 5 years later for $50 less than I paid for it. It's actually a pretty solid brand.

Problem is...it was an open frame single-speed (non inverter style) generator. Fine for running when noise wasn't a concern. Eventually upgraded to a Honda EU2000i inverter generator which was the cats meow (quiet, even under heavy loads, nearly silent from 50 feet under light load) but waaaay more expensive. But for us it was the difference of being able to run it in the non-electrical areas of campgrounds all while still having all the creature comforts in our RV, but (most importantly) not being "That guy" with a loud generator wrecking the serenity. I put it in the bed of the truck, pulled the toneau partly over it (damped noise, still allowed ventilation), and it while running at low RPM just charging my golf cart batteries, barely audible even on our own campsite.

Back on the topic of "powering your house during an ice storm", my inverter solution has kept us afloat (furnace, fridge, and electronics/TV) for 24 hours before, although I know it's not for everyone, and it's also not automatic by any means.

Fiddles, it seems what you're looking for is a fully automatic standby generator. Look online at Home Depot's website, they sell the Generac models - I actually deliver them to a lot of the stores. The smaller (6000w) units can be had for <$3000, although you'll easily be in for probably another $2K for installation by the time you have a gasfitter run the gas lines and an electrician do the wiring. But it's going to do what you want it to do...as long as you can get it situated somewhere permanent where the gas and electrical hookups are workable given your housing situation. And 6000w is plenty for careful usage, even being enough to run an element on the stove or small appliances like a toaster oven so long as you're not trying to run everything that's high demand at the same time.

Costco also carries one Generac permanent install model. Presumably beats HD price. Install is the big question mark on price. For fiddles, a crane ( or smart rigger) might be required to get it up to the deck, plus gas (is a BBQ line sufficient or does she need more gas flow), plus electric, plus potential some roof repair if she penetrates the flat roof.

 

[PrivatePilot]

From what I've seen, the permanently installed automatic system seems like it will be extremely difficult to make viable, but it's also seems to be the only solution that fits the requirements. I guess if money is no object the right people can probably find a way as long as it's physically possible while still meeting code.

However a portable generator with some extension cords would be a whole lot easier and cheaper, if not as slick, and not automatic.

 

[SunnY S]

When you get serious about Home stand by,

Home Standby Generators – Champion Power Equipment

A Champion home standby generator provides peace of mind, security and convenience for your family during an emergency by automatically powering the essentials or your entire home.

www.championpowerequipment.com

Check out Champion Home Standby Generators, they are good for the price, and come with 10 year warranty on Parts. I'm a dealer for Champion, so of course I would push them. Having said that, we install more Generac 22.5k models, as the Champion's largest they offer is 14.4k. Nonetheless, the Generac cost more and only have 5 year warranty and 14.4kW is plenty enough for most peoples needs.

Consumer Reports highly rates the Champion and has noted it as a "Best Buy", we've also found they are less finicky then the Generacs as they don't have as many nanny's and safeguards in place and way more electronic wizardry that trips up the generator. The Champion is simply more basic and mechanical, but it just works. In one trailer park we installed a Champion in, he said the majority of residents had Generacs, and the service guy was a regular visitor there for problem service work.

At the end of the day, they are both good for different reasons, choose what's best for you.

 

[Trials]

Tractor PTO driven, you can weld with it if you need to