Gas bill separation - suspicion | GTAMotorcycle.com

Gas bill separation - suspicion

sburns

sburns

Well-known member
Been getting message lately the hot water tank (Enercare) will no longer be part of the Enbridge gas bill, it will be separate from now on.

My immediate thought, somehow this will lead to higher costs (them rigging it), pay the transfer/transport fees twice, more taxes, (HST etc)

Is this a Toronto thing, or Ontario wide?
 
Yea - I got that notification earlier as well.

Honestly - for the speed and convenience, I'd rather pay a business a little more to get back up and running asap. Lately whenever I've called Enercare support I get routed to some call center in South America. Such a waste of time really. The loyalty/retention care team appears to be back in Canada so I try to request them asap whenever I call in.

Our Rheem tankless system crapped out 3 times in a span of 1.5 months. Each time we had to wait for 7-8 days for resolution due to shipping part delays and scheduling delays.

When trying to cancel the rental contract they wanted us to pay close to 3500 for a 6 year old system. We ended up switching it to a 50 gallon Rheem boiler instead. They gave us 7 months off the rental fee so once that is done we simply call in to cancel the contract and pay the $1500 fee (which ends up being cheaper overall). Never going to use Enercare again after this.
 
All water heater rentals are a horrendous use of money. Our 10 yo heater is ready for the garbage and Enercare wants $1000 to buy it out. I hate them.

As for the billing. Something changed (I think in law) and Enbridge is not able to do any third party billing anymore. Enercare tacks on a 1.50 paper bill fee and some people say their rate changed. They are evil and deserve to be destroyed in court.
 
Something did change recently in Ontario where Enercare is going to now be a separate bill from Enbridge. Not sure if Enbridge kicked them out, or in they decided they can make more money on their own. I assume Enbridge was tired of getting calls about Enercare billing issues.

They're also now not able to register liens against your property, thankfully.
 
Ah so gov shenanigans then, which may have benefits, or not.

I've got to get around to figuring out a better deal for hot water.
 
sburns said:
Ah so gov shenanigans then, which may have benefits, or not.

I've got to get around to figuring out a better deal for hot water.
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Just buy a heater. Any heater. My next one will be heat pump hot water. That may not be the best choice for everybody. The hardest part of the whole thing is escaping from their clutches. You used to be able to pay a reasonable break fee and return the tank. They eliminated that years ago. Only way out is pay the huge buyout or it is leaking/unrepairable (but they decide what is unrepairable so if they think you will escape, they may do everything possible to repair).

EDIT:
They have made it slightly easier to find some of the buyout tables (although not old enough for mine, they should be mandated to have all tables easily available for tanks people are paying for). They used to be unobtanium and you had to call in to get numbers. As expected from dirtbags, they are fear based and do everything possible to string you along. They do no maintenance, do no proactive tank replacement, take days to respond to service and charge you for essentially a new tank every 2-3 years. Complete garbage.

Support - Enercare AdvantageTM Water Heaters | Enercare

Need service on one of your Enercare water systems or your water heater? Contact us to get the help you need. Book your appointment now.
www.enercare.ca www.enercare.ca

"Since older water heaters, like all equipment, may be prone to more break downs near the end of their lifetime after the manufacturer’s warranty has expired and a single repair (e.g. ventor assembly repair+) could cost more than what’s left on your rental agreement, buying out could actually end up costing you more."
 
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My payout when we moved into our current house was about $800. About 2 years later it was a total of $20, but they offered everything under the sun to keep me.

- New water tank for $50 (we were paying $16/month)
- New water tank for $16
- New water tank with 6 months no payments

In the end I paid out $20, removed the tank when I had a new one (purchased) installed.
 
Did the amortising calculations for my hot water equipment cost in my house. $3.22/month to date.
 
Devil’s advocate (but it’s a different situation here in Kingston). We rent our tank from the City utilities co. We had a leak in the tank that my wife noticed at about 9pm one night. Called the emergency number and a plumber came round within an hour. Diagnosed the issue, said the tank was about to let go (it was ancient) and we needed a replacement immediately. Sourced a new one, removed the old one and fitted the new unit before midnight. No cost to us at all.

Hate to think what the plumbers fees/price for new tank would have been for that.

If I’d have replaced it myself well before this issue I’d probably have been fine for years though.

Because of that incident we don’t mind the fees which are minimal as it’s peace of mind.
 
jc100 said:
Devil’s advocate (but it’s a different situation here in Kingston). We rent our tank from the City utilities co. We had a leak in the tank that my wife noticed at about 9pm one night. Called the emergency number and a plumber came round within an hour. Diagnosed the issue, said the tank was about to let go (it was ancient) and we needed a replacement immediately. Sourced a new one, removed the old one and fitted the new unit before midnight. No cost to us at all.

Hate to think what the plumbers fees/price for new tank would have been for that.

If I’d have replaced it myself well before this issue I’d probably have been fine for years though.

Because of that incident we don’t mind the fees which are minimal as it’s peace of mind.
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Our enercare tank is $600/yr. At the old house, TPV failed and they said they would attend within the next 72 hours. I bought it out for $20 (with the associated fear mongering and hail and brimstone from the phone rep). I replaced the TPV and it was still in the house when I sold it years later.

It turns out that you have a very very short window after buying a house (like 24 or 48 hours) where you are able to tell them to come get their crap and they can't stop you legally (although they will probably try and weasel out of it). I didn't know at the time and was not expecting a 10 yo tank to buyout at over $1000. The flammable vapour sensor crapped out one night and I had it fixed in 30 minutes. I don't need or want any service from them ever. F those guys.
 
sburns said:
Lol @GreyGhost you got a axe to grind or something... :LOL:
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Yes. When you run a legalized extortion ring that charges people exorbitant rates and makes it almost impossible to escape in an economically viable manner and you use fear to try to increase investor returns, you belong in jail. Tank warranty is six years, Their ROI is less than three years. Buyout after six years should be close to zero and not close to the price of a new tank.
 
mimico_polak said:
They're also now not able to register liens against your property, thankfully.
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Agreed, this was a nasty surprise to us when we listed our house last year, while we were well aware we owed money for the furnace the lien on the house was ridiculous and took a massive amount of time to clear out.
 
Jampy00 said:
Agreed, this was a nasty surprise to us when we listed our house last year, while we were well aware we owed money for the furnace the lien on the house was ridiculous and took a massive amount of time to clear out.
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The neighbour has a rental on demand water heater (from previous owner). Her lien is 30K. Wtf.
 
A bit of history: Used to be you could "rent" a flat rate electric water heater. IIRC it cost about $6-7/mth, for the water heater AND the energy it used. The water heater was wired in before the meter, so the energy wasn't metered BUT the electrical utility would shut off the water heater from 6:30 AM till 9 AM, and 4:30PM till 7 PM, when electrical demand was at it greatest.
It was a good deal all round. We got cheap hot water and the utility had a lower peak demand.
That ended in the '80s.
Now you're just renting the appliance, and with any rental, the economics usually doesn't work out for the renter
There's not much to a water heater: a big tank and a couple of heaters... if it leaks it is probably leaking at a fitting, at the elements or the pressure relief valve. that can be easily replaced with home owner tools. If you have an OLD water heater... the only real difference to a NEW water heater is how much insulation it has... if you have an old water heater: wrap it in insulation (careful with a gas heater, the heaters need good air flow).

I bought a house that used to have a flat rate heater, so it had a box that wasn't metered... that's where I wired in the grow lights. TEE HEE
 
GreyGhost said:
The neighbour has a rental on demand water heater (from previous owner). Her lien is 30K. Wtf.
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Mine was only for the original purchase price, but of course it was never adjusted over years we'd made payments, so we had to prove the final amount owing etc.. it was such a pain in the butt, glad the next house will be a pine box...
 
sburns said:
Been getting message lately the hot water tank (Enercare) will no longer be part of the Enbridge gas bill, it will be separate from now on.

My immediate thought, somehow this will lead to higher costs (them rigging it), pay the transfer/transport fees twice, more taxes, (HST etc)

Is this a Toronto thing, or Ontario wide?
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I'm in Mississauga, currently renting from Reliance who bills me directly. When I was at a different address a few blocks away, Enbridge originally billed me for both, then it got broken out into Enbridge for gas and Enercare for the water heater. You should only see your rental rate and associated tax move over to the new bill, nothing else.
 
Relax said:
I'm in Mississauga, currently renting from Reliance who bills me directly. When I was at a different address a few blocks away, Enbridge originally billed me for both, then it got broken out into Enbridge for gas and Enercare for the water heater. You should only see your rental rate and associated tax move over to the new bill, nothing else.
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Thank you!
 
sburns said:
Been getting message lately the hot water tank (Enercare) will no longer be part of the Enbridge gas bill, it will be separate from now on.

My immediate thought, somehow this will lead to higher costs (them rigging it), pay the transfer/transport fees twice, more taxes, (HST etc)

Is this a Toronto thing, or Ontario wide?
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It’s a Enbridge Gas thing. Enbridge Gas has decided not to continue the open bill program where it provided billing services to other 3rd party companies so you’d get all your charges on one enbridge bill. It’s being phased out this November, so I’m sure all those 3rd party companies like Enercare are messaging
customers to update/confirm correct customer & payment info is up to date, before they start billing directly.
 
bitzz said:
I bought a house that used to have a flat rate heater, so it had a box that wasn't metered... that's where I wired in the grow lights. TEE HEE
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