Gardner construction could take as long as TWENTY YEARS.

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likebutta said:
You jest. To build it, it would take 40 years. 4 guys to operate the machinery, 33 to stand around and observe that they are doing it right.
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Took 3 hours of discussion with 6 VP's of various firms and the Toronto Transit Commission to confirm which shade of paint would go on one of the operation plants. Not one would make the final decision. True story.

The government entities are a colossal finger pointing circus.
 
nfq said:
There's the million jobs initiative right there, hire more construction crew, engineers, etc. Get this cranked out in a couple years. bam. done.

Penalties for over-runs on contracts should be enforced heavily and doubled. Watch work get done then...
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While this might work in theory, it's not how the system works in the real world. The city doesn't have unlimited funds to play with and a mechanics adage rings true: Good, fast, cheap - pick two.
 
Toronto always get a bad rap, on the roads and congestion. And some will even say they don't want to live in TO. but rather live out on the suburbs.
Unless I'm wrong but I'm sure you guys have seen the morning rush hour. 80 to 90% of those cars goes inside TO. from all direction. Hamilton, Newmarket, Oshawa on the east Guelph on the west ,just to name a few. Gardiner expwy. user majority does not even live in TO.
my 2 cents anyway.
 
dasiffy said:
the problem with that is if they get a fine, and they think they can't pay it they file for bankruptcy. Then the job stops on a dime and the city has to scramble to find someone else to complete the job.

Then the bidding process starts all over again, and a year later, work continues.
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This is just not true.

The contractor has to include along with his original bid a bond in the amount of the total project. Meaning the bonding company will pay for 2nd place bidder to finish the project if the original contractor is unable to do so. Be it for bankruptcy, incompetence or otherwise.

If the contractor is late finishing a project he is charged liquidated damages. This comes out of their final payment. They don't get final payment until they hit the date of substantial completion, which is generally 2 years after the actually work ended.
 
Torren said:
This is just not true.

The contractor has to include along with his original bid a bond in the amount of the total project. Meaning the bonding company will pay for 2nd place bidder to finish the project if the original contractor is unable to do so. Be it for bankruptcy, incompetence or otherwise.

If the contractor is late finishing a project he is charged liquidated damages. This comes out of their final payment. They don't get final payment until they hit the date of substantial completion, which is generally 2 years after the actually work ended.
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+1 on the Bond. Bankruptcy is a non issue. Besides, the prequalification stages weed out the shady companies.
 
Torren said:
This is just not true.

The contractor has to include along with his original bid a bond in the amount of the total project. Meaning the bonding company will pay for 2nd place bidder to finish the project if the original contractor is unable to do so. Be it for bankruptcy, incompetence or otherwise.

If the contractor is late finishing a project he is charged liquidated damages. This comes out of their final payment. They don't get final payment until they hit the date of substantial completion, which is generally 2 years after the actually work ended.
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I am going to guess here, that if the rules were as such, you wouldn't probably get any bidders ... there's plenty of work out there where they wouldn't have to go through such strict rules and contract, so why to bother? Unless every work/contract is governed by the same rules/scrutiny, the potential bidders will simply not bother to bid.
 
mxs said:
I am going to guess here, that if the rules were as such, you wouldn't probably get any bidders ... there's plenty of work out there where they wouldn't have to go through such strict rules and contract, so why to bother? Unless every work/contract is governed by the same rules/scrutiny, the potential bidders will simply not bother to bid.
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The large projects are all like this, and the large construction companies (The EllisDon's, PCL's, etc.) do this. As to why bid on the large projects....they are longer periods of steady work. You don't have to keep chasing work around to keep your payroll paid. Plus alot of the smaller projects are for clients that are a serious pain in the *** to deal with and will cut every corner that won't outright kill someone just to squeeze more profit out of a project. To answer an earlier question there is normally around 10% hold back on every progress billing that does not get paid out until the warranty period is over.
 
mxs said:
I am going to guess here, that if the rules were as such, you wouldn't probably get any bidders ... there's plenty of work out there where they wouldn't have to go through such strict rules and contract, so why to bother? Unless every work/contract is governed by the same rules/scrutiny, the potential bidders will simply not bother to bid.
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Most, if not all, such contracts are governed the same way and require bonding/stipulations for liquidated damages. Most companies would bid for the contract as it guarantees steady work and more importantly, steady pay without having to pull teeth to collect.
 
This...shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone, unless you're not paying attention to the way politics work here.

Urban planning in Toronto will always be a failure because the government of the day isn't willing to step on toes to get things done efficiently. The self serving NIMBYs and their representatives in the GTA are entirely to blame for not standing behind a major issue like transportation.
 
So for us out of towners. Let's see if I get it. Gardiner is falling apart. Goes ignored while everyone bitches about it. Insert political bs. Finally they are going to fix it and still everyone bitches? :dontknow:
 
mxs said:
I am going to guess here, that if the rules were as such, you wouldn't probably get any bidders ... there's plenty of work out there where they wouldn't have to go through such strict rules and contract, so why to bother? Unless every work/contract is governed by the same rules/scrutiny, the potential bidders will simply not bother to bid.
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Because in municipal contracting that's how it's done. The contractor gets payments throughout the contract as they complete parts of the contract but there is always a substantial holdback to use as leverage against a contractor that does shoddy work or cuts corners.
 
Roomie said:
So for us out of towners. Let's see if I get it. Gardiner is falling apart. Goes ignored while everyone ******* about it. Insert political bs. Finally they are going to fix it and still everyone *******? :dontknow:
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That's a fairly universal issue. Not one just central to the GTA. People whine and complain for years that let's say their road need resurfacing. So after years of complaint the city calls a tender, awards a contract and work begins. The same people will immediately start bitching about noise, dust, it's taking to long... the sun doesn't shine like it used to, the birds don't sing as sweetly.. so on and so forth. People want everything, but they don't want to pay for it and they don't want it to disturb their life in any way.
 
rome said:
Toronto always get a bad rap, on the roads and congestion. And some will even say they don't want to live in TO. but rather live out on the suburbs.
Unless I'm wrong but I'm sure you guys have seen the morning rush hour. 80 to 90% of those cars goes inside TO. from all direction. Hamilton, Newmarket, Oshawa on the east Guelph on the west ,just to name a few. Gardiner expwy. user majority does not even live in TO.
my 2 cents anyway.
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Last year it was announced that almost as many people are driving out of Toronto to their jobs, as are driving into the city for theirs.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
Last year it was announced that almost as many people are driving out of Toronto to their jobs, as are driving into the city for theirs.
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I'm one of those. Live in Toronto but my office is in Brampton.
 
nobbie48 said:
Could someone explain why the AM in and the PM out traffic is so jammed in comparison?
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When I look at the traffic going the other way, on The Gardiner, it's no less jammed up inbound than outbound in the afternoons. That dates back to before the construction.
 
Through me you pass into the city of woe:
Through me you pass into eternal pain:
Through me among the people lost for aye.

Justice the founder of my fabric mov'd:
To rear me was the task of power divine,
Supremest wisdom, and primeval love.

Before me things create were none, save things
Eternal, and eternal I endure.
All hope abandon ye who enter here.

Such characters in colour dim I mark'd
Over a portal's lofty arch inscrib'd:
Whereat I thus: Master, these words import.
 
Rob MacLennan said:
When I look at the traffic going the other way, on The Gardiner, it's no less jammed up inbound than outbound in the afternoons. That dates back to before the construction.
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From Bloor / 427 in the AM I could drive to Hamilton faster than to Scarborough. With the new construction I could probably drive to Niagara Falls faster.

The Pan Am games: This traffic fiasco could bring us more embarrassment than Ford. I don't know if RF actually hurt anyone financially. Can you imagine having a fistful of high end $$$ Pan Am tickets and having to listen to the event on your car radio because you're stuck in traffic?

We could add an open marathon to the event. Everyone, spectators and competitors alike, jogs from place to place because it's faster than driving or TTC.
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