Garage insulation

[Trials]

Hoping to piggy back...

Condensation from relatively warm air collects on the inside of the first cold surface it encounters. (same as creosote in a chimney does)

Assuming the unheated garage has good drainage and no water entering from other sources, the water and frost must be coming from humid air. Cold bare concrete floor combined with the sealed roof line defined by your second floors closed cell spray foam ceiling is effectively increasing the production of condensation in the garage. Do you want the cheapest option or the expensive one?
Expensive solution is to insulate and heat the garage, or try to mechanically remove the condensation.
Cheaper solution is to significantly increase ventilation in the garage area which will effectively make the garage area colder.

Bearing in mind that heat rises and cold drops, so if you vent from the floor level on one side of the garage to a high point on the other side of the garage, air flow will naturally go in the floor level vent and out through the higher ceiling vent

 

[Trials]

... Humidity levels are 73% most of the time ...

On a motorcycle related side, when was the last time you changed your brake fluid?

Dot 3 & Dot 4 brake fluid is hydroscopic, meaning that it absorbs water from the atmosphere. Water content in your brake fluid is what ruins its usefulness in your brake system. With an increased exposure to humidity, the greater the importance and need to change the brake fluids in your vehicles more frequently.

 

[stevie t]

The braking system should be a closed system, how would exterior humidity get into the braking system?

 

[Trials]

The braking system should be a closed system, how would exterior humidity get into the braking system?

It's not a closed system, your brake reservoir is vented in order to operate at atmospheric pressure. Even if water doesn't enter through the seals and rubber itself (which apparently the experts say it does) the brake reservoir is subjected to the effects of condensation due to repeated heating and cooling cycles, as little as 3% dilution is sufficient to affect the fluids performance by reducing it's boiling point. Is why the scheduled replacement of brake fluid is in your owners manual. Sometimes the manual will even state to use fluid only from a new sealed container for the same reason. That quarter filled container sitting in your garage potentially has moisture in it from condensation and exposure to air having been previously opened.

Have you ever had your brakes stick on and need to bleed them only to have it happen again? I have! ... that is the result of water content in the fluid. Check the colour of your fluid, it is clear when it is new and darkens with age and exposure.

If your bike uses Dot 5 that is different stuff and the same rules do not apply but Never mix brake fluid types, they are not compatible.

... my manual says to replace it every 6 months and even states "do not service the brake system in high humidity" (and by replace they don't mean add it)
Also says if you need to add fluid then check your brakes for wear (because the reservoir holds enough fluid that if the fluid is low then probably so is your brake pad material)

I know it all really sounds anal but if you don't ever want brake problems that's what you should be doing, I found out the hard way.

 

[matt365]

It's not a closed system, your brake reservoir is vented in order to operate at atmospheric pressure. Even if water doesn't enter through the seals and rubber itself (which apparently the experts say it does) the brake reservoir is subjected to the effects of condensation due to repeated heating and cooling cycles, as little as 3% dilution is sufficient to affect the fluids performance by reducing it's boiling point. Is why the scheduled replacement of brake fluid is in your owners manual. Sometimes the manual will even state to use fluid only from a new sealed container for the same reason. That quarter filled container sitting in your garage potentially has moisture in it from condensation and exposure to air having been previously opened.

Have you ever had your brakes stick on and need to bleed them only to have it happen again? I have! ... that is the result of water content in the fluid. Check the colour of your fluid, it is clear when it is new and darkens with age and exposure.

If your bike uses Dot 5 that is different stuff and the same rules do not apply but Never mix brake fluid types, they are not compatible.

... my manual says to replace it every 6 months and even states "do not service the brake system in high humidity" (and by replace they don't mean add it)
Also says if you need to add fluid then check your brakes for wear (because the reservoir holds enough fluid that if the fluid is low then probably so is your brake pad material)

I know it all really sounds anal but if you don't ever want brake problems that's what you should be doing, I found out the hard way.

This thread sure took an unexpected turn.

You get brake fade when you start to boil the absorbed moisture. Easy to do on the track, but hard to do on the street.

I typically change out brake fluid at the beginning of the season.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk

 

[boyoboy]

i would love to have a wood stove in my garage but when we went shopping for home insurance most companies flat out refused to insure us with a wood burning stove in a detached out building, WETT certified or not.We had to remove it to get insured.The thing was 50' away from our house.Everybody has a wood burning stove outside of Toronto.i would like to know who insures them.

friend in n. bay added a wood stove to his living room. think he said the insurance went up like $700/yr. was 4-5 years ago.

 

[Trials]

This thread sure took an unexpected turn.
...

lol only mentioned it because it sounds like it is practically raining in Krime's garage.

There are recommendations and opinions all over the board when it comes to brake fluids, as I mentioned I know what you should not do from first hand experience, now I just go by what the manufacturer says although I generally double the service intervals stated in the manual. ymmv

Guessing it would be less of an issue if we all lived in the desert and not in Ontario.

 

[Krime]

Condensation from relatively warm air collects on the inside of the first cold surface it encounters. (same as creosote in a chimney does)

Assuming the unheated garage has good drainage and no water entering from other sources, the water and frost must be coming from humid air. Cold bare concrete floor combined with the sealed roof line defined by your second floors closed cell spray foam ceiling is effectively increasing the production of condensation in the garage. Do you want the cheapest option or the expensive one?
Expensive solution is to insulate and heat the garage, or try to mechanically remove the condensation.
Cheaper solution is to significantly increase ventilation in the garage area which will effectively make the garage area colder.

Bearing in mind that heat rises and cold drops, so if you vent from the floor level on one side of the garage to a high point on the other side of the garage, air flow will naturally go in the floor level vent and out through the higher ceiling vent

Thanks for this, this was my thoughts as well after researching as much as I could the last couple of days. In terms of venting, what systems are available? I read about the Humidex garage ventilator – https://www.humidex.ca/en/products/garage – but heard mixed reviews and started to question it's effectiveness (something I want to be 100% sure of before I start drilling holes through my new house.

In terms of other solutions, I looked into desiccant dehumidifiers but they are pricey and hard to find, and I'd question the effectiveness of it running through the cooler winter days. Also, with any dehumidifier I'd imagine it will be working overtime and defeating the purpose if the garage is always being opened and replacing the air when my wife drives her car in.

Lastly, I'm thinking as a cheap test to at least help with the condensation/icing on the inside of the garage doors would be to aim a floor fan at the inside of the doors to keep air circulation going (hopefully preventing the build-up of condensation/frost). I read somewhere that it worked for someone although skeptical.

Here's the super weird thing. Just stopped by my moms place where my bikes have been stored for the last 10 years and still are this year (their last). It's a two car garage as well with drywall but no insulation. A cinder block wall is on the one side (it's a townhouse that has the garages connected to the neighbouring houses), and the other walls and ceiling are drywalled like mine. The one dry walled wall even has a window towards the front of the garage. The garage doors are aluminium and insulated, and have windows in the upper section as well. The garage is dry as hell. Not even a drop of condensation on the garage windows or the side window. The humidity is showing a constant 45%. The other side of the garage opens to make way for her car. Melted snow was pooled up around her car and the levels are still low. Somehow her garage is ventilating exceptionally well. I'm completely confused. House is 10 years old, the garage doors in this case are facing West (vs. mine being North), and she also has a bedroom above the garage (like my house).

Scratching my head with this one. I've got this winter to figure things out before I bring my toys over. Wife's picking up a new car as well which we'll want to keep it dry for as well.

There is a chance the builder insulated the side walls as well, as I did see the fibreglass insulation being applied to the walls of some neighbouring houses (despite them telling us they would NOT be uninsulated). Perhaps this is helping keep the moister in? Might be a good idea to poke a hole through the drywall and see what's behind.

Lastly (this time for real), I thought about your idea/solution to heat the garage, but I think this really would only work well if I didn't have my wife's car coming in and out as I'd imagine the cool winter air would cause for condensation on the inside surfaces when the garage regularly opens and closes. Also, after coming from a condo for 3 years with a heated garage, my car got heavily corroded with rust from the drastic temperature changes in the winter melting the snow and salt at a rapid pace.

On a motorcycle related side, when was the last time you changed your brake fluid?

Dot 3 & Dot 4 brake fluid is hydroscopic, meaning that it absorbs water from the atmosphere. Water content in your brake fluid is what ruins its usefulness in your brake system. With an increased exposure to humidity, the greater the importance and need to change the brake fluids in your vehicles more frequently.

Hasn't been a problem yet as I've only had the bikes in the garage during this years riding season for about 4 months but this is a good point and will take note!

 

[Robbo]

Thanks for this, this was my thoughts as well after researching as much as I could the last couple of days. In terms of venting, what systems are available? I read about the Humidex garage ventilator – https://www.humidex.ca/en/products/garage – but heard mixed reviews and started to question it's effectiveness (something I want to be 100% sure of before I start drilling holes through my new house.

In terms of other solutions, I looked into desiccant dehumidifiers but they are pricey and hard to find, and I'd question the effectiveness of it running through the cooler winter days. Also, with any dehumidifier I'd imagine it will be working overtime and defeating the purpose if the garage is always being opened and replacing the air when my wife drives her car in.

Lastly, I'm thinking as a cheap test to at least help with the condensation/icing on the inside of the garage doors would be to aim a floor fan at the inside of the doors to keep air circulation going (hopefully preventing the build-up of condensation/frost). I read somewhere that it worked for someone although skeptical.

Here's the super weird thing. Just stopped by my moms place where my bikes have been stored for the last 10 years and still are this year (their last). It's a two car garage as well with drywall but no insulation. A cinder block wall is on the one side (it's a townhouse that has the garages connected to the neighbouring houses), and the other walls and ceiling are drywalled like mine. The one dry walled wall even has a window towards the front of the garage. The garage doors are aluminium and insulated, and have windows in the upper section as well. The garage is dry as hell. Not even a drop of condensation on the garage windows or the side window. The humidity is showing a constant 45%. The other side of the garage opens to make way for her car. Melted snow was pooled up around her car and the levels are still low. Somehow her garage is ventilating exceptionally well. I'm completely confused. House is 10 years old, the garage doors in this case are facing West (vs. mine being North), and she also has a bedroom above the garage (like my house).

Scratching my head with this one. I've got this winter to figure things out before I bring my toys over. Wife's picking up a new car as well which we'll want to keep it dry for as well.

There is a chance the builder insulated the side walls as well, as I did see the fibreglass insulation being applied to the walls of some neighbouring houses (despite them telling us they would NOT be uninsulated). Perhaps this is helping keep the moister in? Might be a good idea to poke a hole through the drywall and see what's behind.

Lastly (this time for real), I thought about your idea/solution to heat the garage, but I think this really would only work well if I didn't have my wife's car coming in and out as I'd imagine the cool winter air would cause for condensation on the inside surfaces when the garage regularly opens and closes. Also, after coming from a condo for 3 years with a heated garage, my car got heavily corroded with rust from the drastic temperature changes in the winter melting the snow and salt at a rapid pace.





Hasn't been a problem yet as I've only had the bikes in the garage during this years riding season for about 4 months but this is a good point and will take note!

Do your neighbours have the same issue with high humidity in their garage?

Have you approached the builder at all?

 

[GreyGhost]

It takes a new house quite a while to get rid of all of the construction moisture (at least months, possibly years).
Residential dessicant dehumidifiers are quite useless.
Humidex is way too fancy for your problem. I would probably hook up a bathroom exhaust fan and dump it out through the soffit (I wouldn't do it with a bathroom but for this I wouldn't be concerned). Leave this fan on for a year or so. You aren't moving that much air, so the overhead door should leak enough to give you make up air. If you put a higher flow fan, I would be adding an inlet grille so it didn't suck air from the house.

 

[Bobo]

I agree with GreyGhost. I’ve worked on a lot of new custom houses and the humidity tends to be high in them in the first year from the concrete and wood drying out.Its especially noticeable in the first winter when all the windows are closed and the place is sealed up. If you have a humidifier on your furnace ,turn it down or off and let the air suck the moisture out of the place.The problem will probably fix itself.

 

[Trials]

Krime, never having seen your garage anything I say would be just a guess, but it sure sounds to me like you have a drainage problem. If the concrete is prone to breaking up, cracks that open or shift seasonally, changes in height, that would absolutely be the result of inadequate drainage. Nothing is more powerful then the force of water freezing and expanding as it becomes ice. If water moisture is not coming from above then it must be either percolating from below and/or is not being allowed to drain away so is collecting in and on the concrete where it will endlessly condense back into the air space. If the concrete is in good shape you might try sealing it and combined with some improved ventilation that might reduce the problem. If the water is coming in from outside and collecting in and under the foundation and floor of the garage, I don't think there is a solution short of improving the drainage between the garage and that water source.

If you were to dig a small hole a few feet from the garage foundation once spring thaw arrives and strike ground water at a very shallow depth, that would confirm the likelihood of inadequate drainage in the area of your garage floor.

Hope this helps some.

 

[Trials]

BTW: using propane to heat air in a closed space will actually increase the moisture content in that air, propane used that way is not a dry heat source like electric or wood heat is. When LPG burns it releases a relatively large quantity of water.

... do you use gas for forced air home heat and/or hot water heating and if so where is your hot water tank and furnace located and where does it vent to and where does the water drain off to relative to your garage?

 

[nobbie48]

On a motorcycle related side, when was the last time you changed your brake fluid?

Dot 3 & Dot 4 brake fluid is hydroscopic, meaning that it absorbs water from the atmosphere. Water content in your brake fluid is what ruins its usefulness in your brake system. With an increased exposure to humidity, the greater the importance and need to change the brake fluids in your vehicles more frequently.

No one ever mentions the clutch fluid.

When I got my GL 1500 the brake fluid looked OK (Changed it anyway) but the clutch fluid (Same stuff) looked like rancid gravy.

 

[Krime]

First off, a big thank you to everyone for all the help.

Do your neighbours have the same issue with high humidity in their garage?

Have you approached the builder at all?

Good question. Spoke with one of my neighbours and he is having the same issue with his house. I had a look and garage interiors are frozen over like mine, maybe slightly less thick but still frozen. He parks both of his cars in there like I am currently.

My neighbour on the other side doesn't have any visible frost on the glass inserts at the moment, but when it dipped to -15 or so the other day I did see some milder frost build up when looking for the outside in. He does not park his vehicles in the garage which would explain that. Otherwise I'd imagine the same situation. Along our street there are houses built from another builder and I did notice some frost build up on their windows as well (looking from the outside) but didnt have a super close look. Their doors are also uninsulated wood.

I just sent out an email to the builder this morning regarding this issue. I have a previous appointment with them on Wednesday and will bring it to the reps attention then again as well.

It takes a new house quite a while to get rid of all of the construction moisture (at least months, possibly years).
Residential dessicant dehumidifiers are quite useless.
Humidex is way too fancy for your problem. I would probably hook up a bathroom exhaust fan and dump it out through the soffit (I wouldn't do it with a bathroom but for this I wouldn't be concerned). Leave this fan on for a year or so. You aren't moving that much air, so the overhead door should leak enough to give you make up air. If you put a higher flow fan, I would be adding an inlet grille so it didn't suck air from the house.

This is a really good thought thank you for that. The house closed in March of this year and we've been moved in for 6 months now. Regarding the soffit vent, this sounds like it could be a great solution. I did a bit of research on this after you mentioning this and an article mentioned that a soffit vent in the garage is not necessary if your soffits have those narrow slat patterns in them (which are apparently done to serve this purpose of venting). I had a look this morning and my garage soffits do have these vents which is interesting.

I agree with GreyGhost. I’ve worked on a lot of new custom houses and the humidity tends to be high in them in the first year from the concrete and wood drying out.Its especially noticeable in the first winter when all the windows are closed and the place is sealed up. If you have a humidifier on your furnace ,turn it down or off and let the air suck the moisture out of the place.The problem will probably fix itself.

Good to know. This likely explains the interior condensation we're getting on the windows throughout the house. In the mornings I'm going around wiping them down, often times the water has pooled on the lower trim there's so much condensation. We have a very small hrv running and have the interior humidity around 30-35% and its still happening. Any less humidity and we'll really notice the dry air which isn't good for the baby especially. Maybe this is happening as you're saying, because the materials are still drying out.

Krime, never having seen your garage anything I say would be just a guess, but it sure sounds to me like you have a drainage problem. If the concrete is prone to breaking up, cracks that open or shift seasonally, changes in height, that would absolutely be the result of inadequate drainage. Nothing is more powerful then the force of water freezing and expanding as it becomes ice. If water moisture is not coming from above then it must be either percolating from below and/or is not being allowed to drain away so is collecting in and on the concrete where it will endlessly condense back into the air space. If the concrete is in good shape you might try sealing it and combined with some improved ventilation that might reduce the problem. If the water is coming in from outside and collecting in and under the foundation and floor of the garage, I don't think there is a solution short of improving the drainage between the garage and that water source.

If you were to dig a small hole a few feet from the garage foundation once spring thaw arrives and strike ground water at a very shallow depth, that would confirm the likelihood of inadequate drainage in the area of your garage floor.

Hope this helps some.

Thanks Trials, this is some good insight as well. I will monitor this overtime and come spring. They build the houses so close to eachther these days. My neighbours garage on the one side is about 3 feet from my own. If there is a drainage problem it will likely be in this area. It sits relatively flat at this point. Being on a hill where backyard slopes downwards and the driveway slopes downwards, at this point it is almost completely flat. Builder put some gravel/stones between the houses here and the roof spout drains from both of our garage roofs are essentially dumping water onto this area. Although not pretty, it may be wise to get those bendable extensions that attach to both of our downspouts and aim them between our driveways. Although I suppose this would only be a summer solution for when it rains, and do essentially nothing in the winter with snow.

 

[ReSTored]

I recently moved into a newly built two car garage house and have noticed that the humidity levels are always high (65-70% on a regular bases) through the summer with only my motorbikes parked inside – no wet cars coming and going. Now that the winter is here and we're temporarily parking both cars inside, both wooden garage doors have a thick layer of frost and ice building up on the inside surface. The garage windows are also completely frosted over as well with thick ice. Humidity levels are 73% most of the time which is very high for winter temps when the outside air is dryer than the summer.

I'm not 100% sure you have a problem. Your garage is not air conditioned so RH levels of 65 - 70% in the summer might be perfectly normal. If the garage is 70% what is the outside RH? I'd expect RH in and out to be very similar.

Today the RH is about 65% and I suspect your garage is the same or higher, especially if you are parking 2 vehicles in there overnight as all snow and ice will melt off them, pool on the floor and partially evaporate before the cycle repeats.

Running a fan to exhaust air and pull in outside air through leak points would only lower your RH to what it is outside.

I've had the ST for about 15 years, stored in an unheated garage for 4 - 5 months a year, and I'm often asked if it's a new bike. Zero corrosion so far, so I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[Trials]

... Builder put some gravel/stones between the houses here and the roof spout drains from both of our garage roofs are essentially dumping water onto this area. Although not pretty, it may be wise to get those bendable extensions that attach to both of our downspouts and aim them between our driveways. Although I suppose this would only be a summer solution for when it rains, and do essentially nothing in the winter with snow.

The drainage stone (usually clean crushed limestone) is expensive so builders use it sparingly, that drainage material is suppose to be surrounding perforated Big-O which is the drain pipe that is suppose to be completely surrounding your houses foundation and footings. That drain pipe is suppose to lead off and away from the house where it can drain away water. Eaves troughs are suppose to dump into non-perforated Big-O and that too is suppose to lead away from the house and drain off somewhere. Drain pipe in theory never holds water in it mostly air, there is no reason to not bury it under the surface so no need to leave it exposed which as you say looks tacky. Big-O pipe is fairly cheap to buy, installing it and burying it with the appropriate material is expensive. Builders tend to use way too much clay for backfill around foundations and clay holds water.

The perforated aluminum soffit on the underside of the eaves is the air intake for your insulated ceiling, air enters that venting and because heat naturally rises it travels upwards under the slope of the roof to where it (hopefully) exits the roof through a ridge vent or strategically located roof vents. That flow of air is critical to insulation working as it needs to vent and to expel moisture that would otherwise collect in your attic insulation rendering it useless. Insulated walls need to vent in a similar manor and additionally they need to drain condensed water out and away from the building, that is why brick or stone fascia has an air space behind it and little drains at the bottom.

flexible Big-O pipe is generally used as an economical substitute for the rigid pipe indicated in the drawing, both work equally well if installed correctly.

A house is suppose to be warm dry comfortable place, you know you have a problem if the materials the house is built from take on water, rot away and cultures mold and mildew.

BTW if you are wondering why I have interest in this stuff, besides being old and renovating or scratch building a bunch of houses of my own, my high school majors were Architectural drafting and structural engineering.

 

[Krime]

I'm not 100% sure you have a problem. Your garage is not air conditioned so RH levels of 65 - 70% in the summer might be perfectly normal. If the garage is 70% what is the outside RH? I'd expect RH in and out to be very similar.

Today the RH is about 65% and I suspect your garage is the same or higher, especially if you are parking 2 vehicles in there overnight as all snow and ice will melt off them, pool on the floor and partially evaporate before the cycle repeats.

Running a fan to exhaust air and pull in outside air through leak points would only lower your RH to what it is outside.

I've had the ST for about 15 years, stored in an unheated garage for 4 - 5 months a year, and I'm often asked if it's a new bike. Zero corrosion so far, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Good point, but after monitoring through the summer I noticed inconsistencies. For example, with the garage doors closed in dry weather over the summer, it would average around 60%+ inside while the outdoor air would be as low as 45-50%. I'd frequently open the garage to get the humidity levels down during the day, but avoided it often with all the construction dust happening. When I opened the garage doors it would bring down the humidity around 10% within a few minutes. This leaves me to believe that my garage is either retaining humidity with being really well sealed or emitting it's own moister due to the new building materials (or a combination of both).

Had a look last night and with the temps below freezing all day the ice has melted and the garage has been sweating and drilling water. Noticed some ice thawing between the two garage doors on the bottom concrete portion of the wall below the drywall. Dry wall taking was wet and hoping drywall above does not have water/condensation in behind. Humidity was as high as 75% through the evening last night.

Also odd is that although outdoor humidity has been around 70% a couple days ago, my mothers garage where my bikes are stored was registering 45% humidity during that time, while mine was registering 73%. It's interesting how that can be possible. It must be the same situation as when I open a window in the house for cool air - the cold outdoor humidity may be 65% and the indoor humidity at 38%, but with the window opened slightly the indoor humidity level drops to 32% or so in a short amount of time. Have no idea how this works, it is beyond me!

The drainage stone (usually clean crushed limestone) is expensive so builders use it sparingly, that drainage material is suppose to be surrounding perforated Big-O which is the drain pipe that is suppose to be completely surrounding your houses foundation and footings. That drain pipe is suppose to lead off and away from the house where it can drain away water. Eaves troughs are suppose to dump into non-perforated Big-O and that too is suppose to lead away from the house and drain off somewhere. Drain pipe in theory never holds water in it mostly air, there is no reason to not bury it under the surface so no need to leave it exposed which as you say looks tacky. Big-O pipe is fairly cheap to buy, installing it and burying it with the appropriate material is expensive. Builders tend to use way too much clay for backfill around foundations and clay holds water.

The perforated aluminum soffit on the underside of the eaves is the air intake for your insulated ceiling, air enters that venting and because heat naturally rises it travels upwards under the slope of the roof to where it (hopefully) exits the roof through a ridge vent or strategically located roof vents. That flow of air is critical to insulation working as it needs to vent and to expel moisture that would otherwise collect in your attic insulation rendering it useless. Insulated walls need to vent in a similar manor and additionally they need to drain condensed water out and away from the building, that is why brick or stone fascia has an air space behind it and little drains at the bottom.

flexible Big-O pipe is generally used as an economical substitute for the rigid pipe indicated in the drawing, both work equally well if installed correctly.

A house is suppose to be warm dry comfortable place, you know you have a problem if the materials the house is built from take on water, rot away and cultures mold and mildew.

BTW if you are wondering why I have interest in this stuff, besides being old and renovating or scratch building a bunch of houses of my own, my high school majors were Architectural drafting and structural engineering.

Thanks for this detailed explanation regarding the roof/soffit ventilation and drainage. You're right about the clay. Prior to having our sod laid I was shocked at how much clay was in the mud surrounding our house. Even the soil under our sod is full of clay, which I'm convinced is a big reason why our lawn is not thriving and looks amost dead despite frequent watering when and after it was laid.

I'll speak with my neighbour regarding connecting our downspouts to big Os that run under ground and away from our foundation. This sounds like a solid idea.

The builder is coming tomorrow for an appointment so I'll see what he says regarding this issue.

 

[timtune]

Hard to beat light right where you need it:

not to mention the low cost
... oops I just mentioned it :|

Wrong! Better to have good light and not need the trouble light

 

[timtune]

Nobbie,I think you are probably right about the 4800w heater costing $20 a day to run full time at current rates.Dont let that scare anyone away from electric heat.A heater half that size would easily heat a single car garage and even then it might run 15 minutes every hour(at the most)That $20 now becomes $2.50 a day to heat your garage 24 hours a day.I think you could even get that cost down by lowering the thermostat when you’re not actually working in there.I think it’s the way to go in a small well insulated garage

I don't believe you could heat a garage on 2:50$ a day in Kathleen Wynn's ontario... Just saying