Furnace and AC...

[Lyndsay]

Just out of curiosity, how is the furnace fueled? Gas, propane, oil or electric? When I built my house I had a heat pump installed, does both the heating and cooling in one unit. It has propane backup, and you can set the outside temperature at which you wish it to kick over to the propane. Can't comment on the price, as I had the whole system including all ducting done by them.

 

[GreyGhost]

Just out of curiosity, how is the furnace fueled? Gas, propane, oil or electric? When I built my house I had a heat pump installed, does both the heating and cooling in one unit. It has propane backup, and you can set the outside temperature at which you wish it to kick over to the propane. Can't comment on the price, as I had the whole system including all ducting done by them.

If's he's in Waterdown proper (which he appears to be from his pictures) he probably has access to NG. That makes it very difficult for any other system to be cost effective.

 

[Zoodles95]

Thanks for all the feedback.

We are on natural gas; I should have mentioned that from the get go.

Some updates.

One quote has a Carrier dual stage furnace and Carrier 16 SEER AC unit for $8689.70 all in.

Other quote is actually for 2 different options from the same company. This company is out of Cambridge and the purchaser/sort of manager has been a passenger of mine for years.

The options are:
Goodman dual stage furnace
Goodman 16 SEER AC
Total came to $6995.15 all in

OR...

Keeprite dual stage furnace
Keeprite 16 SEER AC
Total came to $8960.90 all in

While he said the Keeprite has its advantages he said that the Goodman units have come a long way and that their warranty coverage is really good and that they stand behind their products. With some of your posts about your Goodman units that makes me want to lean more this way. We can swing most of the 7k and the couple of grand we could stick on one of lines of credit for a couple of months and pay it off. No pressure from these folks at all. The can look after me mid next week if we wanted to; otherwise they are fine with us putting it off to February/March etc.

Ironically the furnace is running really well now. I find it runs better to keep the temperature higher so it comes on more often. Of course this is a horrible plan from an economical and ecological perspective.

The one thing I am pondering is whether to upgrade the thermostat. We have a Honeywell WiFi enabled thermostat. The guy out of Cambridge recommended an Ecobee if we wanted to upgrade the thermostat. I am also wondering whether to consider a humidifier?

Getting another quote tomorrow.

 

[GreyGhost]

Thanks for all the feedback.

We are on natural gas; I should have mentioned that from the get go.

Some updates.

One quote has a Carrier dual stage furnace and Carrier 16 SEER AC unit for $8689.70 all in.

Other quote is actually for 2 different options from the same company. This company is out of Cambridge and the purchaser/sort of manager has been a passenger of mine for years.

The options are:
Goodman dual stage furnace
Goodman 16 SEER AC
Total came to $6995.15 all in

OR...

Keeprite dual stage furnace
Keeprite 16 SEER AC
Total came to $8960.90 all in

While he said the Keeprite has its advantages he said that the Goodman units have come a long way and that their warranty coverage is really good and that they stand behind their products. With some of your posts about your Goodman units that makes me want to lean more this way. We can swing most of the 7k and the couple of grand we could stick on one of lines of credit for a couple of months and pay it off. No pressure from these folks at all. The can look after me mid next week if we wanted to; otherwise they are fine with us putting it off to February/March etc.

Ironically the furnace is running really well now. I find it runs better to keep the temperature higher so it comes on more often. Of course this is a horrible plan from an economical and ecological perspective.

The one thing I am pondering is whether to upgrade the thermostat. We have a Honeywell WiFi enabled thermostat. The guy out of Cambridge recommended an Ecobee if we wanted to upgrade the thermostat. I am also wondering whether to consider a humidifier?

Getting another quote tomorrow.

I wouldnt hesitate to get Goodman.

I put a humidifier on last house and this house came with one that I left in while replacing furnace. Meh. More trouble than they're worth, I probably wouldnt pay to have one installed again. It's really hard to get the proper water flow rate to humidify well without dumping tons of water down the drain. If you increase humidity very much, your windows start weeping so that's not helpful.

I did a media filter on both houses. That is worthwhile imo. Change filters roughly once per year, better filtration, lower pressure drop, not much downside.

Why upgrade thermostat? What is the upside? Costco sells ecobee if you want to do it yourself in the future.

 

[sburns]

Thanks for all the feedback.

We are on natural gas; I should have mentioned that from the get go.

Some updates.

One quote has a Carrier dual stage furnace and Carrier 16 SEER AC unit for $8689.70 all in.

Other quote is actually for 2 different options from the same company. This company is out of Cambridge and the purchaser/sort of manager has been a passenger of mine for years.

The options are:
Goodman dual stage furnace
Goodman 16 SEER AC
Total came to $6995.15 all in

OR...

Keeprite dual stage furnace
Keeprite 16 SEER AC
Total came to $8960.90 all in

While he said the Keeprite has its advantages he said that the Goodman units have come a long way and that their warranty coverage is really good and that they stand behind their products. With some of your posts about your Goodman units that makes me want to lean more this way. We can swing most of the 7k and the couple of grand we could stick on one of lines of credit for a couple of months and pay it off. No pressure from these folks at all. The can look after me mid next week if we wanted to; otherwise they are fine with us putting it off to February/March etc.

Ironically the furnace is running really well now. I find it runs better to keep the temperature higher so it comes on more often. Of course this is a horrible plan from an economical and ecological perspective.

The one thing I am pondering is whether to upgrade the thermostat. We have a Honeywell WiFi enabled thermostat. The guy out of Cambridge recommended an Ecobee if we wanted to upgrade the thermostat. I am also wondering whether to consider a humidifier?

Getting another quote tomorrow.

Good to hear you are getting some more reasonable quotes.

One thing about Furnace bands they are similar to other appliances they might be made by a handful of companies with different product lines. Might be worth a look if it makes you comfortable.

Sizing of your furnace BTU is somewhat important. You want it to run at it's maximum capacity and not under utilized so it can be more efficient. Say you have a smaller home and you put in 100,000 BTU unit and it only uses stage 1 and barely at full use. It's not running efficiently then. Something like that, hopefully the service people have touched on this subject.

I also have a Honeywell WIFI thermostat, it's ok. There are a few features I was expecting it to have not sure if EcoBee would be much better. Unless you are getting a sweet deal from the installer etc might not be worth it.

You don't currently have a humidifier on your furnace?

 

[Kawyman]

Question about wifi/smart thermostats for those that have one or want one cause I know nothing about them.

If you install one to learn your house and it adjust temps for when your home or not, do you actual notice any savings on your gas bill ( heating season) ? I quickly googled and they can cost like $200, what savings do they give you month to month and how long till they actual break even for savings vs outta pocket cost ?

 

[GreyGhost]

Question about wifi/smart thermostats for those that have one or want one cause I know nothing about them.

If you install one to learn your house and it adjust temps for when your home or not, do you actual notice any savings on your gas bill ( heating season) ? I quickly googled and they can cost like $200, what savings do they give you month to month and how long till they actual break even for savings vs outta pocket cost ?

A lot depends on how you program it. The thermostat manufacturers pick wildly atypical savings imo. They compare their smart thermostat winding back the temp often vs old school constant temp thermostat. The vast majority of people are already running programmable thermostats. Most people I know with fancy thermostats are not letting the thermostat do most of it's fancy energy saving tricks as the thermostat is not in a good location for that. If you don't move past the thermostat often, it assumes you are gone and backs off the setting. Ecobee does the cool multi-zone monitoring which is interesting but not that useful. I know what the temperature variation in my house is (the worst room is 2 to 3F colder in the winter and 5F warmer in the summer worse than the setpoint). Without zoning, you are just playing but not saving anything. If it makes sure the worst room is satisfied, the rest of the house will be off of the desired setpoint.

Wifi could be a valuable addition depending on your use. If we go away for more than a couple days, I back the thermostat way off. It takes the house a few hours to recover when we return. My wife and kids would be happier if I could get the house to temp before we arrived. Also it can send you an alert if you are away and something goes wrong (maybe need a smart one for this, not sure if honeywell will do it or not).

 

[ToSlow]

i'm getting quotes for 3800 to 4000 to replace mine,

 

[Zoodles95]

13 SEER verus 16 SEER AC units? There is a different valve or part in the 16 SEER units which can make them less reliable?

Napolean guy is in the house right now. Nobody had mentioned the different tech in the more efficient AC units before.

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[Zoodles95]

i'm getting quotes for 3800 to 4000 to replace mine,

That is pretty much where I am if we went the Goodman unit.

$3195 for the furnace. $45 for hardware for the 4" media filter. $125 for the condensate pump. Then taxes.



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[GreyGhost]

13 SEER verus 16 SEER AC units? There is a different valve or part in the 16 SEER units which can make them less reliable?

Napolean guy is in the house right now. Nobody had mentioned the different tech in the more efficient AC units before.

Sent from my SM-G781W using Tapatalk

Maybe TXV vs piston? Maybe multi-speed comp? Maybe different refrigerant?

FWIW, the guy I bought my furnace off sells napoleon as well but is very annoyed with them. With the warehouse ten minutes away you would think parts availability would be amazing but it's not. He was having so many problems that he will only install Napoleon if a customer forces him too. Well, that's his story anyway. N of one doesn't mean that much but it is worth considering and discussing with your installer.

 

[Zoodles95]

Maybe TXV vs piston? Maybe multi-speed comp? Maybe different refrigerant?

FWIW, the guy I bought my furnace off sells napoleon as well but is very annoyed with them. With the warehouse ten minutes away you would think parts availability would be amazing but it's not. He was having so many problems that he will only install Napoleon if a customer forces him too. Well, that's his story anyway. N of one doesn't mean that much but it is worth considering and discussing with your installer.

TXV ... mentioned a valve.

Napolean quote is the second lowest outside of my Cambridge connection.

This one is $7390 plus tax. They are throwing stuff in as sweeteners. Canadian Heating and AC. Throwing in the UV purifier, new thermostat etc

If we wait until March we have $5500 set aside. Then use our line of credit and get it knocked off before end of summer.

Still leaning towards my Cambridge connection. Pretty much $7000 all in. No fancy new thermostat or humidifier or UV system. But will be new and have better tech and efficiency than we presently have. Best of all the money we save can go towards some landscaping this summer.

To get 3,6, or 9 months deferral was $500 in admin fees and either 6.9% or.9.9% financing rates. That's nuts!

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[GreyGhost]

TXV ... mentioned a valve.

Napolean quote is the second lowest outside of my Cambridge connection.

This one is $7390 plus tax. They are throwing stuff in as sweeteners. Canadian Heating and AC. Throwing in the UV purifier, new thermostat etc

If we wait until March we have $5500 set aside. Then use our line of credit and get it knocked off before end of summer.

Still leaning towards my Cambridge connection. Pretty much $7000 all in. No fancy new thermostat or humidifier or UV system. But will be new and have better tech and efficiency than we presently have. Best of all the money we save can go towards some landscaping this summer.

To get 3,6, or 9 months deferral was $500 in admin fees and either 6.9% or.9.9% financing rates. That's nuts!

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UV is smoke and mirrors in almost every install. Yes, it can work. Check the required dwell times though. Most require the air flow to be almost stopped going over the bulb to be effective. Most installs just toss it in the plenum with air ripping by. It adds expense to install, expense to replace bulb and no positive benefit.

Any thermostat install they do, you can easily do yourself later. There is no way they plan on pulling a new multi-core, they will just plug something in to what you have.

If you really find your humidity takes a dump in the winter, either run a humidifier in your bedroom or run the shower full-hot into a plugged tub for while each day. That puts lots of vapor in the air quickly, then a little more over time and you get to use the heat to warm your house. Pull the plug when the water is cold. It costs a bit in water but probably not much worse than a humdifier pissing down the drain all day.

 

[mimico_polak]

I’ve had an ecobee for a long time now and honestly I don’t find those types are worth it.

sure they’re fun for a while but really for us, we tried putting down the temps when we were going out but then forgot to ramp them up again so we’d get home and the house was freezing. Did some research a while back and I remember reading that the energy required to maintain a temp is lower than dropping temp, and then trying to regain that heat again. Sure for longer time periods it may make sense but on a day to day, we set it and forget it.

 

[GreyGhost]

I’ve had an ecobee for a long time now and honestly I don’t find those types are worth it.

sure they’re fun for a while but really for us, we tried putting down the temps when we were going out but then forgot to ramp them up again so we’d get home and the house was freezing. Did some research a while back and I remember reading that the energy required to maintain a temp is lower than dropping temp, and then trying to regain that heat again. Sure for longer time periods it may make sense but on a day to day, we set it and forget it.

The other problem that you and I have that Zoodles doesn't is nighttime setback. When it was just adults, I would wind it back a few degrees at night (I think that should save some energy but I haven't run the numbers in a while). With kids, there is a decent chance that someone is up and moving during the night and a cool house just makes that more annoying so I have just left the house at one temp for the last bunch of years unless I am going away for days. Soon, I can try setback again (just a few degrees) as kids rarely get up anymore.

I also have a conflict with a heated floor. The floor temp is set to be comfortable. The cooler the house is, the more energy the floor needs. Swapping in electricity to save NG is not cost-effective.

 

[rakkaus]

TXV ... mentioned a valve.

Napolean quote is the second lowest outside of my Cambridge connection.

This one is $7390 plus tax. They are throwing stuff in as sweeteners. Canadian Heating and AC. Throwing in the UV purifier, new thermostat etc

If we wait until March we have $5500 set aside. Then use our line of credit and get it knocked off before end of summer.

Still leaning towards my Cambridge connection. Pretty much $7000 all in. No fancy new thermostat or humidifier or UV system. But will be new and have better tech and efficiency than we presently have. Best of all the money we save can go towards some landscaping this summer.

To get 3,6, or 9 months deferral was $500 in admin fees and either 6.9% or.9.9% financing rates. That's nuts!

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cheap is good for the pocket but doesnt mean the quality of work is good.
look up the contractor at homestars.com might help you decide
or ask them a few questions since u are changing the furnace and AC unit , is the A coil and cover come in 1 piece or they have to cut the cover and to fit the A coil. Are all the hardware new? (wires, fuse, venting pipe, etc)
is the warranty good? with parts and labour x years (warranty is as good as their business still around)

 

[rakkaus]

btw check out uniongas rebate program (furnace/ac/thermostats)

 

[J_F]

another positive vote for Goodman
several years ago we needed a furnace
the 220V toaster needed to go and switched to propane

had a few HVAC guys come and quote
really liked the features and efficiency of the Amana
after same reading, found out Amana is a Goodman in a fancy box with expensive warranty

ended up finding a Goodman dealer in upstate NY
drove across and bought one with variable speed DC motor, $1100 US
paid the HST coming back - no duty

hired a local guy for the install - AC unit was reused
$750 for the install including new plenums, power vent exhaust and fresh air in
and he ran the black pipe for propane to where the tank was located outside

other guys called back and I told them what I'd done
their reply was I'm stupid as I'd have no warranty

warranty??? for what they were charging I could have bought 3 of the Goodmans
and have parts for the next 25 years

zoodles, unless you're dead set on turn key install and big warranty
I'd look around....should be able to keep this well under 5K and still get good quality

 

[Zoodles95]

Thanks for the responses. Going to skip the thermostat, UV etc. Going for a couple of more quotes and then then pull.the trigger.

We don't need the humidifier. My wife and I talked about that and feel there is no need. This is our second winter here and the house has never felt too dry.

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[SunnY S]

try A Plus Air for a quote, from Stoney Creek, 905 385 6450 ask for John.

Highly likely you have seen their trucks around, great people to deal with.