It's all about civility, morality and respect. Which you might not understand....if you have to question it. Maybe ask your parents or even your grandparents I'm sure they do.
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Funeral Convoy: What to do?
- Thread starter jonpurdy
- Start date
Again, does none of this apply to the procession? Do these norms not apply to them because they're mourning? What other ways are they permitted to offend people because they're honouring a dead person?
The census didn't cover deaths, but I did find data for 2009 elsewhere ... but just for the province. Assuming that the death rate is uniform across the province (which it won't be), and using the population data for 2011, there would be a potential 18-20 funerals a day in Toronto (not the GTA).
Because the impatient are offended due to a minor inconvenience? Time to reassess the criteria for "offence", methinks.
Sure, you just go ahead and block an interesection for a minute for no good reason, see how friendly a response you get. Or if that happened to you, it wouldn't make it onto one of your video highlights along with disparaging comments about the person blocking your way?
Again, what makes it OK when honouring a dead person? Will no one answer that?
Because too many people hold on to some antiquated idea that a rotting corpse is something other than a rotting corpse.
I don't know how many times I have to repeat the same things, before some people start to understand. A funeral procession is not some random person blocking an intersection. It has a purpose. It is also not about honouring the dead, but rather about consoling the living.
No one will answer you, because you're asking the wrong question.
Griffin
Well-known member
Article from today's Winnipeg Free Press:
The time-honoured tradition of funeral processions going through red lights is a symbol that the community respects the grieving of mourners riding to the cemetery to bury their loved one. Unfortunately, the tradition can be dangerous.
A collision in Winnipeg on Jan. 13 sent two people to hospital with minor injuries after a vehicle turned into a funeral procession honouring a 96-year-old woman. Crashes like this have some safety officials saying the provincial Highway Traffic Act has an out-dated approach to funeral processions.
(The law) is antiquated and a danger in my opinion," said Patrol Sgt. Kevin Cisaroski, the Winnipeg Police Service central traffic unit's special events co-ordinator. The act currently states vehicles in a funeral procession can go through a stop sign or a red traffic-control light after the lead vehicle has slowed or stopped for safety. It also states the funeral procession has the right-of-way after passing through an intersection with a traffic light or sign.
Police used to escort funeral services but no longer guard intersections unless the funeral is a high-profile event expected to attract an unusual amount of people. There are not enough officers to provide escorts for every funeral, say police.
"The law doesn't work in an urban environment like we have now given the types of vehicles we have and the speeds that people travel on the roadways, and the urban design of roadways," said Cisaroski. "In many cases, your sightline is next to nothing until you're at that intersection."
The act does not require funeral directors or procession organizers to secure each intersection the procession is heading through, but does require a lead vehicle. The lead vehicle has to ensure it's safe to enter the intersection.
Cisaroski said funeral processions pose a safety risk if the vehicles in it are not nose-to-tail.
"Now, you've got somebody who's a little slow, who's grieving, who's psychologically hurt as a result of the reason they're there, they're friends of somebody who's died," he said. He said confusion about who has the right-of-way in intersections where funeral processions are travelling will lead to death. "It's only a matter of time (before) that happens to somebody," he said. He said for "safety's sake" they should have an official escort with emergency lighting to hold intersections.
On Jan. 13, a collision occurred on Main Street after a procession from the Ukrainian Orthodox Metropolitan Cathedral of the Holy Trinity to Glen Eden Memorial Gardens. At about noon, a Honda CR-V travelling southbound on Main Street collided with a northbound Chrysler Sebring after the Honda turned eastbound towards Red River Boulevard. Jacqueline Wilson, 58, was in the funeral procession to honour her late 96-year-old mother, Effie Sokoluik. She said the collision occurred after a handful of vehicles had gone through the intersection, but there were many other vehicles behind in line. "(Drivers) have to be cautious, " she said. "They can cause hurt and pain, and property damage." She said everyone in the procession had their four-way flashers on.
Manitoba legisltation is different than Ontario but my point is that some persons in authority recognize this hazard.
The time-honoured tradition of funeral processions going through red lights is a symbol that the community respects the grieving of mourners riding to the cemetery to bury their loved one. Unfortunately, the tradition can be dangerous.
A collision in Winnipeg on Jan. 13 sent two people to hospital with minor injuries after a vehicle turned into a funeral procession honouring a 96-year-old woman. Crashes like this have some safety officials saying the provincial Highway Traffic Act has an out-dated approach to funeral processions.
(The law) is antiquated and a danger in my opinion," said Patrol Sgt. Kevin Cisaroski, the Winnipeg Police Service central traffic unit's special events co-ordinator. The act currently states vehicles in a funeral procession can go through a stop sign or a red traffic-control light after the lead vehicle has slowed or stopped for safety. It also states the funeral procession has the right-of-way after passing through an intersection with a traffic light or sign.
Police used to escort funeral services but no longer guard intersections unless the funeral is a high-profile event expected to attract an unusual amount of people. There are not enough officers to provide escorts for every funeral, say police.
"The law doesn't work in an urban environment like we have now given the types of vehicles we have and the speeds that people travel on the roadways, and the urban design of roadways," said Cisaroski. "In many cases, your sightline is next to nothing until you're at that intersection."
The act does not require funeral directors or procession organizers to secure each intersection the procession is heading through, but does require a lead vehicle. The lead vehicle has to ensure it's safe to enter the intersection.
Cisaroski said funeral processions pose a safety risk if the vehicles in it are not nose-to-tail.
"Now, you've got somebody who's a little slow, who's grieving, who's psychologically hurt as a result of the reason they're there, they're friends of somebody who's died," he said. He said confusion about who has the right-of-way in intersections where funeral processions are travelling will lead to death. "It's only a matter of time (before) that happens to somebody," he said. He said for "safety's sake" they should have an official escort with emergency lighting to hold intersections.
On Jan. 13, a collision occurred on Main Street after a procession from the Ukrainian Orthodox Metropolitan Cathedral of the Holy Trinity to Glen Eden Memorial Gardens. At about noon, a Honda CR-V travelling southbound on Main Street collided with a northbound Chrysler Sebring after the Honda turned eastbound towards Red River Boulevard. Jacqueline Wilson, 58, was in the funeral procession to honour her late 96-year-old mother, Effie Sokoluik. She said the collision occurred after a handful of vehicles had gone through the intersection, but there were many other vehicles behind in line. "(Drivers) have to be cautious, " she said. "They can cause hurt and pain, and property damage." She said everyone in the procession had their four-way flashers on.
Manitoba legisltation is different than Ontario but my point is that some persons in authority recognize this hazard.
Griffin
Well-known member
Again, you don't agree with me. That doesn't make me wrong, even if you are a moderator with whom I often agree. Having a moderator state in public that my arguments are invalidated is annoying.
The concept of exagerrating an example to illustrate a point is very valid notwithstanding that some persons don't agree with that method. You have heard of the man who asked the woman in the bar whether she would sleep with him for a million dollars? She agreed to but then when he offered her fifty bucks instead, she asked him "what type of a girl do you think I am". He responded "we've established that, now we're dickering over the price". Some people might think that the exagerration of what he was willing to pay negated the argument that she was a slut. To me, it's perfectly clear that she was.
It is a valid philosophical premise to exagerrate in order to clearly define the issues. You don't agree, fine. You aren't alone. To tell me that my argument is not valid however, is not valid.
If there are rules for posting discussions on this forum that I'm not aware of, such as "do not use exagerration to make a point", I'd like to be informed of them instead of basically being told to go away by a mod.
Thanks.
My position on the board isn't relevant. We're talking about regular people stopping for processions. You extended that to emergency vehicles. That made your comment invalid, to the point of discussion.
It wouldn't offend me or many people I know in the slightest. I wouldn't be upset about getting a to a place a few minutes later. What it would do is make me think about what the people in the cars are thinking at the loss of someone many of them have known or been with for decades.
I think a new Romper Room thread is warranted about generational/cultural observances and thoughts today because I see such a big divide on this one. I'm middle aged and was taught many things by my parents in terms of what constitutes right and respectful behaviour and I have carried those through in my own life as, mostly, they make perfect sense. I may also have had experience of a few more tragic deaths than some other people and seen what that does to a family or extended family.
Exactly...
I'm sure there have been accidents due to ambulance and fire service vehicles finding their way through traffic.....should we make them follow regular traffic protocol too?
I will say if a procession is not directed by police or proper escort, they should follow rules of the road.
Because we know there are rude or unaware people on the roads.
How hard is it to affix flashing lights ontop of cars in a procession? Suction cup light with battery. Cars have to follow nose to tail and this might alleviate any accidents or problems.
I'm sure there have been accidents due to ambulance and fire service vehicles finding their way through traffic.....should we make them follow regular traffic protocol too?
I will say if a procession is not directed by police or proper escort, they should follow rules of the road.
Because we know there are rude or unaware people on the roads.
How hard is it to affix flashing lights ontop of cars in a procession? Suction cup light with battery. Cars have to follow nose to tail and this might alleviate any accidents or problems.
Exactly! Processions force people to be polite. There is no civility in stopping to let them go because we have no choice (if there's a police escort). It's the law. I have respect for the dead and for mourners but not for people who block traffic for no apparent reason but to satisfy their own egos. That's what this is about, not respect for the dead.
When my dad died I made sure the funeral director explained there would be NO procession. I made directions with maps to hand out and then I repeated to the congregation that there will be NO procession.
When I die the last thing I want is to be paraded through town in everybody's way as a last act of 'rememberance'. That's the complete opposite of who I've tried to be my whole life and if it ever happens I will come back to life and rise out of the coffin with a 50 caliber mnachine gun and mow down everybody who's following the hearse. Processions are pure arrogance and I won't ever be a part of it.
Freight trains serve a purpose.
Charities and community events serve a purpose.
That is awesome, I honestly respect your choice. It's like people who feel the need to contribute in the fallen riders section. They feel better about themselves and often family and friends get a lift from seeing the community support. But the fallen riders section is optional. It doesn't do anything for me to contribute there, even if I knew the rider. If we were all forced to write a RIP comment in every fallen rider thread then would it be as meaningful? Of coure not. Just like being forced to stop for a funeral procession is not an indication of respect. But your choice to stop IS respectful, and that seems to be what people want to force everyone to do. But as I quoted Rob saying above, you can't force people to have respect.
Exactly. This has not be answered honestly yet.
Yes, who the F do they think they are? Again, you are suggesting they are absolved from their civil obligation to be courteous and respectful because they're in mourning. I respect their need to mourn, it's the procession I can't stand. They are seperate things. So far, nobody has shown how mourning requires a procession. (Old people require extra time because they can be slow even when they don't mean to be.) If someone can explain how processions are necessary then I will likely change my tune.
Repeat what? As you can tell I've read the whole thread again since you pretended to have said something that I missed. Maybe I missed it again? What is the purpose of a funeral procession? Unless someone can answer this honestly then I have to assume that it is to flatter the ego of the friends and relatives of the deceased. In that context, my question is the right question; Are mourners absolved from being courteous because they are mourning?
Please, someone, try and answer.
Houghtonator
Well-known member
Would you cut into a the processions on the 401?
Seriously what's ten mins of your time?
Seriously what's ten mins of your time?
It's not 10 minutes, it's one minute, two tops.
And it's the same 1-2 minutes as if someone were parked in front of my driveway for no good reason. Get the F out of the way already!
I guess this begs the question... What happens when two funeral processions MEET?! WHICH ONE WAITS?!
LOL! And how many people end up at the wrong cemetary?
Repeat what I said on page 2.
http://www.gtamotorcycle.com/vbforu...y-What-to-do&p=1854860&viewfull=1#post1854860
I think you misunderstood me, and apart from that you're not making sense, plus I don't think the distinction of who's being respected (the living or dead) matters.
Let's try again...
Funeral processions serve no purpose that I can see. Until I am shown otherwise, I have to conclude they are there for show, so mourners can feel important and special at the expense of other traffic. With that in mind, isn't it fair to be frustrated by funeral processions? Or am I expected to give some special dispensation for lack of courtesy because they are mourning?
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