Friend crashed his Daytona 675 - Not exactly sure how

Riceburner said:
Though I wonder if muscle memory of being full on the gas and braking at the limit would hurt in street riding .
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I don't wonder it at all - I am a much better street rider since I started doing track, I actually used to think I was awesome at street riding (don't we all) until I realized how mediocre I was (even when i was better than most).

I keep telling this story:
went to PA with a group of about 10 people - 4 of us went riding at a good pace and everyone stayed behind, 3 of us were racers, 1 was a street rider, we took a decreasing radius turn (called the dead man corner) and none of us knew it was a decreasing corner.

Out of the 4 riders, 1 crashed badly when he freak out and went straight off road into the barrier and 3 made it by scraping pegs to the max on street bikes. Guess who made it and who didn't!

Muscle memory helps you with decisions where your brain does not have time to react in time or your instinct takes in.
 
I can now only ride full throttle or braking while lifting the rear tire. It's an on/off switch...
 
I was passed by a full on track bike on the highway about a month back... rider split a couple 18 wheelers at a ridiculous pace. Through inquiry, I'm also quite certain that rider, and bike, were on the grid last CSBK weekend. Good rider... haha
 
dricked said:
I can now only ride full throttle or braking while lifting the rear tire. It's an on/off switch...
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Lol! You just need more street practice.
Anyone know of any good streetday organizers?

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@dricked

It is, and its true. Don't assume that because you wouldn't no one else would.. Much like the rest of this track v street debate, it's your personal experience telling you this couldn't possibly true, but the reality is, not everyone's you.
 
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Neil_V said:
@dricked

It is, and its true. Don't assume that because you wouldn't no one else would.. Much like the rest of this track v street debate, it's your anecdotal experience telling you this couldn't possibly true, but the reality is, not everyone's you.
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None has said that just because you ride track that you don't do dumb stuff on the street. The conversations have been about simply navigating the roadways.

My years riding on the street compared to track are still in the 3/1 ratio. I was a street rider long before I started racing. I know that my skill is far beyond what I would have been able to reach from just riding on the road and I did so without risking my own or other people's lives. Just because you ride on the track doesn't make you a responsible rider but it most certainly makes you a more skilled one. Not every person who's turned a wheel on a track is better then anyone who hasn't but if you as an individual think you have learned all that you can about riding a bike by only riding on the street that's ridiculous.
 
That's a lot of words. I'll focus on the last part... Do I think I have learned EVERY possible riding skill having not rode track? Of course not. Have I learned more than enough to be highly competent for the riding I do? Yes, without doubt, but I'm well practiced; my opinion is of course, base purely on personal experience.
 
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++1 well said dricked.

it's simple don't ride the streets like it were a track.......... anyways everyone knows the gymhkana guys are the best riders.




dricked said:
None has said that just because you ride track that you don't do dumb stuff on the street. The conversations have been about simply navigating the roadways.

My years riding on the street compared to track are still in the 3/1 ratio. I was a street rider long before I started racing. I know that my skill is far beyond what I would have been able to reach from just riding on the road and I did so without risking my own or other people's lives. Just because you ride on the track doesn't make you a responsible rider but it most certainly makes you a more skilled one. Not every person who's turned a wheel on a track is better then anyone who hasn't but if you as an individual think you have learned all that you can about riding a bike by only riding on the street that's ridiculous.
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Chhai said:
++1 well said dricked.

it's simple don't ride the streets like it were a track.......... anyways everyone knows the gymhkana guys are the best riders.
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I think the point being made is that there are skills that are learned in track that could save a rider on the street (while not riding as if on the track).

For example, looking where you want to go, how you react(or not) when the rear starts slipping out, positioning through a corner, etc.

Even if you don't ride at high speeds, the concept of being smooth on the throttle, not jabbing the brakes (especially through a turn), and how to slow down while in a turn still applies on the street.

Now, if you want to take a long sweeper at a faster pace (which I'm sure most people riding sport bikes do), you'd fall into the "riding the streets like it were a track" (for some) category where those skills would be useful.
This can also fix the issue of riders not being able to take a turn in their own lane. Most of them I see in the suburbs almost always turn into the 2nd lane as they accelerate out at speed. I've seen many almost go straight into the curb at 40-50km/h because they don't know some basic concepts of riding such as not target fixating on it, and hammering the brakes.

I would agree to an extent in regards to Gymkhana. Those that practice, will have a greater benefit on the street more so than Track and dirt riding because of the relative speed traveled - that isn't to say the others won't benefit.
 
PLau said:
I think the point being made is that there are skills that are learned in track that could save a rider on the street (while not riding as if on the track).

For example, looking where you want to go, how you react(or not) when the rear starts slipping out, positioning through a corner, etc.

Even if you don't ride at high speeds, the concept of being smooth on the throttle, not jabbing the brakes (especially through a turn), and how to slow down while in a turn still applies on the street.

Now, if you want to take a long sweeper at a faster pace (which I'm sure most people riding sport bikes do), you'd fall into the "riding the streets like it were a track" (for some) category where those skills would be useful. This would really depend on the experience that the said rider has.
This can also fix the issue of riders not being able to take a turn in their own lane. Most of them I see in the suburbs almost always turn into the 2nd lane as they accelerate out at speed. I've seen many almost go straight into the curb at 40-50km/h because they don't know some basic concepts of riding such as not target fixating on it, and hammering the brakes.

I would agree to an extent in regards to Gymkhana. Those that practice, will have a greater benefit on the street more so than Track and dirt riding because of the relative speed traveled - that isn't to say the others won't benefit.
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I meant to add the "skills from track apply to street" bit but it's a lost cause.

Riding a motorcycle on the street and track a completely different and nothing that you do on the track can be used on the street. A track rider will simply not survive on the road, that takes special talents and abilities.
 
dricked said:
I meant to add the "skills from track apply to street" bit but it's a lost cause.

Riding a motorcycle on the street and track a completely different and nothing that you do on the track can be used on the street. A track rider will simply not survive on the road, that takes special talents and abilities.
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No need to be so dramatic. No one (or at least not me) is saying you can't learn anything at the track; but to act as though this is something someone must do to be great on the brakes; hold a line; save a slide... it's ludicrous. But again, just my opinion... and for the record it's the track folk who keep bringing this back up ;)
 
If you rode track you would know that your right elbow should be a lot more bent on that picture on your avatar ....



lol, I am just screwing around, I also think that stunters (real ones) can do really well racing and are most likely good street riders, but that is a whole other topic :)
 
ZX600 said:
If you rode track you would know that your right elbow should be a lot more bent on that picture on your avatar ....



lol, I am just screwing around, I also think that stunters (real ones) can do really well racing and are most likely good street riders, but that is a whole other topic :)
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Hahaha... touche; do note however, bike was not an SS, Not even close ;)
 
Saying that, all the interweb experts will tell you the below body position is "horrible" and if you crashed, that's probably why... I dunno, 5 straight World Titles... Seems there's more than 1 way to skin a cat haha

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Neil_V said:
...No one (or at least not me) is saying you can't learn anything at the track; but to act as though this is something someone must do to be great on the brakes; hold a line; save a slide... it's ludicrous. But again, just my opinion... and for the record it's the track folk who keep bringing this back up ;)
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He hasn't once said that you have to ride track to do any of the points you mentioned (bolded above).
He has simply said that riding track will greatly improve those exact same skills, which I agree with completely.
This year, I've really started braking hard at the track, get the back end lifting and dancing around, and have become somewhat comfortable with it. If I had never ridden track and braked this hard, chances are I would have binned it. Holding lines - same deal - you learn to look through the turns much more than a regular street rider. Why? Simply because you have to due to increased speeds. If you don't, you're going on an off roading excursion.
This past Tuesday I finished off a GPA rear tire - at the end of my last session it was sliding around all over the place on any sort of corner drive. Uncomfortable, yes. But track experience has taught me how to handle it. I would guess that 90%+ street only riders would chop off the throttle and subsequently high-side if they had similar slides.

Same day, a street rider binned his bike on his first lap, first session of green group at turn 11 (Shannonville). Rider following him reported that the crasher locked up his rear brake (why on earth he was using rear at all there is baffling), got it a bit sideways and subsequently high-sided. A street rider who thought they knew how to ride and didn't bother going out with the other newbs following advanced riders to show lines etc.

Track riding isn't the be-all and end-all of motorcycling - it will simply help you become more adept at collision or wreck avoidance due to higher overall skill level.
 
Oh stories!! Okay, let's wax anecdotal; few months back I came upon a lady slowing in the right lane with her right signal on down a lonely stretch of road. As see seemed to be slowing to pull into a designated pull off I moved to the left lane and maintained my speed. Suddenly she started to make a U-Turn left (with right signal still flashing); I was right on top of her, never going to completely stop in time. I hammered the brakes, rear end hopping about, doing my best to scrub what speed I could. As I realized stopping was going to be a bridge too far, I released the brakes, looking right to the now open lane, I was able to swerve around this air head fashionista. I used all my skill in that moment. All the practice stops, brake and swerve, obstacle avoidance drills.. I practice it all from time to time...

Had I just gone straight to track, sure, I'd learn all the same and then some... maybe quicker.. But at street pace, would I ever truly need the "then some" ... Anyway, I'm sure my story does little to persuade, nor do the stories I've read... To each there own right?
 
Neil_V said:
Oh stories!! Okay, let's wax anecdotal; few months back I came upon a lady slowing in the right lane with her right signal on down a lonely stretch of road. As see seemed to be slowing to pull into a designated pull off I moved to the left lane and maintained my speed. Suddenly she started to make a U-Turn left (with right signal still flashing); I was right on top of her, never going to completely stop in time. I hammered the brakes, rear end hopping about, doing my best to scrub what speed I could. As I realized stopping was going to be a bridge too far, I released the brakes, looking right to the now open lane, I was able to swerve around this air head fashionista. I used all my skill in that moment. All the practice stops, brake and swerve, obstacle avoidance drills.. I practice it all from time to time...

Had I just gone straight to track, sure, I'd learn all the same and then some... maybe quicker.. But at street pace, would I ever truly need the "then some" ... Anyway, I'm sure my story does little to persuade, nor do the stories I've read... To each there own right?
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I think this goes back to the statement "Track riding isn't the be-all and end-all of motorcycling - it will simply help you become more adept at collision or wreck avoidance due to higher overall skill level."

In the end, it comes down to practice for these sort of situations and that any other advanced riding techniques picked up can help one another.
Track, gymkhana, dirt, and stunt riding can help in one way or another - just some more so than others. Obviously practicing street riding in itself can help as well as it is yet another style of riding, but learning new skills *can* be more helpful than gradually improving one.
 
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