Friend crashed his Daytona 675 - Not exactly sure how

[dricked]

Not much of a sweeping corner if you ask me ...
But my thoughts is that he was going too fast and was drifting towards the barrier, panicked grabbed the brakes...then the rest is history.

track riding definitely helps, but track guys on motorcycle forums always like to remind the 'streeters how they do track... I can see why people get annoyed by that!it's like i'm better than you because I ride track... yes track riders are probably way better than your average numpty on the street... but then you get the one dude that ride track once a year, or just finished the beginner track course, and acts holier than though even though he got more experience than a 10yearold virgin.............

It goes both ways. I apparently can barely navigate a city street because I stopped riding on them a couple years ago.

 

[conundrum]

I'm surprised no one said potential pine cone.... lol

 

[yodude]

Originally Posted by PLau

NO! Track riding does not help you on the street!

Not this again. Yes, it does, and the only people who say otherwise have no experience with the matter.

can someone sum up the reason(s)? the main argument(s)? links?

 

[Neil_V]

I do hope you guys cleaned up your mess before moving on...

 

[ZX600]

My point was that unfortunately the skill of leaning more when you need it is not practiced enough, specially here in ontario since we don't have good roads close by, you do need the muscle memory as it isn'tsomething that comes naturally, I know this because before doing track I was and am a street rider.

It isn't my fault that people are insecure when you mention track.

Not much of a sweeping corner if you ask me ...
But my thoughts is that he was going too fast and was drifting towards the barrier, panicked grabbed the brakes...then the rest is history.

track riding definitely helps, but track guys on motorcycle forums always like to remind the 'streeters how they do track... I can see why people get annoyed by that!it's like i'm better than you because I ride track... yes track riders are probably way better than your average numpty on the street... but then you get the one dude that ride track once a year, or just finished the beginner track course, and acts holier than though even though he got more experience than a 10yearold virgin.............

 

[ZX600]

can someone sum up the reason(s)? the main argument(s)? links?

 

[yodude]

what did the rider behind him see? from the thread, rider down has no recollection

you can see it when you slow down the video - he target fixated on something (probably the wall) grabbed a hand full of front brakes and lost the front, watch the video, first the brake light comes on, immediately after his front wipes from under him.

His brake light is still on while his front is going down

Great thing about riding track is that you get the muscle memory of leaning more instead of panicking and grabbing the brakes.

 

[fastar1]

Thanks for this, it makes sense. I don't know why though when I look at the video in slow motion I have a odd feeling he grazed the barrier first then locked the brakes. Though I think your right

You can see scrape marks on the ground well before the tire marks on the wall, so he went down on his own. Also, if he touched the wall while the bike was on it's tires there would be scrapes somewhere on the right side of the bike. I bet there ain't.

 

[Neil_V]

My point was that unfortunately the skill of leaning more when you need it is not practiced enough, specially here in ontario since we don't have good roads close by, you do need the muscle memory as it isn'tsomething that comes naturally, I know this because before doing track I was and am a street rider.

It isn't my fault that people are insecure when you mention track.

In Hamilton, there is more than enough in the way of roads/corners to build that ability, but you have to start by knowing those basics... so many buy that first SS and just go for it, with predictable outcome. I spent a couple years thrashing a 250 and watching every last riding technique vid i could find. The 250 is so forgiving, and knowing what you should do on a bike you trust yourself on makes it easier to push yourself into doing the uncomfortable when youre confronted with it; like leaning more when running wide. The skills picked up on my little Ninjette served me well

As for track, I'm sure it could help for many, but it isn't particularly necessary either; just my .02c

 

[Neil_V]

can someone sum up the reason(s)? the main argument(s)? links?

Target fixation... YT it.. you'll find this crash scenario played out a million times over. Rider likely felt he was running wide/too fast, and started to panic when he saw the wall coming. It's an awkward feeling though there as it opens up with no wall near the exit, then tightens slightly at exit, just as the wall is coming into view... that said, at jogging pace, this shouldn't have been a problem had the rider looked where he wanted to go.


Edit: Sorry @yodude, I missed that you were actually asking about Track riding; since I don't, I'll defer to others...

 

[Iceman]

Of course track riding helps make you a better rider. I raced x country and enduros, through this I learned better clutch and brake control, throttle control and overall better bike control. I've never done a track day but I know for a fact that I'd learn a ton from it. Those who say it does nothing are delusional. Or just to petty to admit that someone who has spent time learning at the track could possibly be a better rider.

Sent from my Le Pan TC802A using Tapatalk

 

[Riceburner]

All different riding experiences teach you something more. Will a track only rider be a good street rider? Not really, there's things on the street that you don't encounter track riding....and visa versa. If you do both, yes you will be a better rider.

 

[yodude]

All different riding experiences teach you something more. Will a track only rider be a good street rider? Not really, there's things on the street that you don't encounter track riding....and visa versa. If you do both, yes you will be a better rider.

+1 except i'd say maybe, likely better on the street with track experience, 2 diff worlds

 

[yodude]

Edit: Sorry @yodude, I missed that you were actually asking about Track riding; since I don't, I'll defer to others...

i was looking for the yes or no, how? why? of track riding does or doesn't help (make a better?) street riding?

another problem is defining a 'good street rider'? do speeding tickets mean anything? points/infractions? defensive driving? etc

can someone sum up the reason(s)? the main argument(s)? links?

Originally Posted by PLau

NO! Track riding does not help you on the street!

Originally Posted by Brian P

Not this again. Yes, it does, and the only people who say otherwise have no experience with the matter.

 

[Riceburner]

Track riding helps you with bike control. Leaning, getting to the limits of the bike, braking limits, etc. Stuff you don't normally get to on the street as much....at least not legally. What track does not do is help with pedestrian, taxi cabs, idiot drivers, etc. Experience with both will make you a better street rider. Do you have to have track to be a good street rider? Not necessarily. Good street rider being one that is prepared for and can adapt to street dangers and survive....one that isn't surprised by unusual road hazards cause he's prepared for and looking for them. Can a good street rider still get taken out? Of course....but is less likely to than a "bad" street rider.

 

[dricked]

Track riding helps you with bike control. Leaning, getting to the limits of the bike, braking limits, etc. Stuff you don't normally get to on the street as much....at least not legally. What track does not do is help with pedestrian, taxi cabs, idiot drivers, etc. Experience with both will make you a better street rider. Do you have to have track to be a good street rider? Not necessarily. Good street rider being one that is prepared for and can adapt to street dangers and survive....one that isn't surprised by unusual road hazards cause he's prepared for and looking for them. Can a good street rider still get taken out? Of course....but is less likely to than a "bad" street rider.

How is that any different than what you'd deal with driving a car?

 

[Riceburner]

Not much...how many actually good drivers do you see around as opposed to just competent ones? Besides with all the aids in cars, competent drivers are "good enough". And cars have lots of protection and don't fall over...unless you run into a parked bus.

It takes more to be a good rider than it does to be a good driver. IMHO

 

[dricked]

Not much...how many actually good drivers do you see around as opposed to just competent ones? Besides with all the aids in cars, competent drivers are "good enough". And cars have lots of protection and don't fall over...unless you run into a parked bus.

It takes more to be a good rider than it does to be a good driver. IMHO

For sure. So if one can navigate a race track at the top of an AM/Pro/Adavnced track day pace then why would riding a motorcycle on the road be more of a challenge or why would the rider not be just fine on the street? If it takes me no extra brain power to operate a motorcycle (actually it would probably take less) as opposed to operating a car then why would a track rider not make a good street rider? I sure as heck don't want to plow my brand new truck into some cabbie or run over a pedestrian so it would be no different watching for these "obstacles" on a bike.

As for the original video, buddy didn't make the corner and grabbed a handful of front brake. Pretty easy to see.

 

[Riceburner]

Running at 9/10th on the track you are navigating fixed points of braking, acceleration, gear changes and other riders(going in the same direction). You're not looking out for the unknown... soccer mom or cabbie, pedestrian that just steps out chasing a Pokemon or streetcar tracks etc. Will a high level tracker be able to ride the streets? Sure. but not as well as the same level rider with street experience.

Though I wonder if muscle memory of being full on the gas and braking at the limit would hurt in street riding .

 

[dricked]

Running at 9/10th on the track you are navigating fixed points of braking, acceleration, gear changes and other riders(going in the same direction). You're not looking out for the unknown... soccer mom or cabbie, pedestrian that just steps out chasing a Pokemon or streetcar tracks etc. Will a high level tracker be able to ride the streets? Sure. but not as well as the same level rider with street experience.

Again, that's all stuff you look out for when driving a car. If you're constantly getting into accidents in your car then riding a bike is probably a dumb choice.