French Immersion, ya or nay? | Page 4 | GTAMotorcycle.com

French Immersion, ya or nay?

I've never understood that argument from the Parisian...

UK speaks English one way with certain idioms and even has sub-regional differences, USA speaks English another way with certain idioms and even has sub-regional difference, same goes with Canada (anyone talk to newfies!? took me a while to get used to the in-laws)
Same goes for Portuguese spoken in Portugal vs Brazil, or Spanish from Mexico and Spain or even some south american countries... and for some reason, Quebec French is a butchered version and France (which LOVES to use English words in their language) that has several versions of French within it (like Marseilles French and other provincial ones)...they think they're so high and mighty but everybody can understand each other if they really want to.
Considering that people still speak French in North America should be quite surprising in itself.
Language evolves to adapt to its environment just like anything else.

To a lot of Quebecers, parisian french sounds like talking French with a stick up the rear end.
 
Ya know how to say STOP in french?

Stop.
Arret means HALT
The whole world gets STOP signs, Quebec gets ARRET signs.
WTF is up with that?
 
bitzz said:
Ya know how to say STOP in french?

Stop.
Arret means HALT
The whole world gets STOP signs, Quebec gets ARRET signs.
WTF is up with that?
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The definition of a "Stop" has the word Arrêt in it....as per the Larousse dictionary

Just like the French from france will use "weekend" and québec will use Fin de semaine, or "shopping" instead of magasinage, "email" instead of courriel, etc etc... France has adopted a lot of English wording within their language. And in every single "explanation" for road signage, every single instance that will have a "stop" as their stop sign in french, will have "arrêt" in their definition explaining what the signage means. So i wouldn't see an issue with the word "Arrêt" on a sign that tells you "de s'arrêter à l'intersection"

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Quebecois French is to Parisian French what Southern American English is to British English. Conversations quickly degenerate into a "what the **** did you just say?" cultural clash unless both parties are willing and able to go easy with their regionalisms.

Most college-educated Quebecois are (somewhat) able to code-switch when visiting France, and a lot of French-from-France people who move to QC end up adopting bits and pieces of the Quebecois dialect. It's all sorts of adorables. But yes the two dialects are worlds apart, and both integrate a lot of English words but in very different ways, as pointed out by Phillou above.

I wanna add that being truly, fluently bilingual is extremely hard. I wouldn't even call myself bilingual - I stumble mid-sentence all the time like our Prime Minister.

The only truly bilingual people I know are from Ottawa. You can't tell which is their native tongue (and oftentimes they're not sure themselves.)
 
Matt Rain said:
The only truly bilingual people I know are from Ottawa. You can't tell which is their native tongue (and oftentimes they're not sure themselves.)
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I have run into people in the greater montreal area that are like that. No french accent when speaking english (I can't tell accents in french so no comment that way) and flip flop with ease. Just perfectly happy in either language.
 
Moncton and Shediac NB has many bilingual residents with no hint of an accent either French or English.

Regarding regional differences of dialect, Northern Ontario, Northern Quebec, and Northern New Brunswick have their own too.

And there is some Acadian NB residents that don’t like the way Quebecers look down on other French people that are not from Quebec.

Being the only Anglo at work with no French comprehension is making for interesting work calls as my manager has forced team meetings to be held in English to accommodate me.

Makes the calls a little longer as they need to search for words at times but, they also appreciate speaking English since they forget how to from speaking French the majority of the time.

I’d say if you can learn it and find a way to make it stick, do it. It’s better to have multiple languages than not.

Law Enforcement, Border Patrol, Government, National Businesses will be an advantage for career opportunities.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
LePhillou said:
The definition of a "Stop" has the word Arrêt in it....as per the Larousse dictionary
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Well YEAH
Were you expecting "Stop is defined as STOP"
Arret or halt is a synonym of stop

But you're missing the point.
Everywhere in the world you will find red, hexagon traffic signs that have the local language word for STOP printed on it, EXCEPT for Quebec were the word in the middle of the sign literally translates to HALT
Quebec is SPECIAL
 
bitzz said:
Well YEAH
Were you expecting "Stop is defined as STOP"
Arret or halt is a synonym of stop

But you're missing the point.
Everywhere in the world you will find red, hexagon traffic signs that have the local language word for STOP printed on it, EXCEPT for Quebec were the word in the middle of the sign literally translates to HALT
Quebec is SPECIAL
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The translation of "Stop" is "Arrêter"

If i tell my kid "stop doing this" in english, it's "arrête de faire ça" in french.
A "work stoppage" is an "arrêt de travail"
If a "cop stopped you" it'll be said "qu'il s'est fait arrêter par la police" (although in this case, it would be closer to a cop arrested you rather than stopped)

"Halte" is also a noun in French that refers more to a break or a temporary stop on a journey but doesn't really apply to driving so when using the language on a regular basis you come to realize what they mean. But the in the opposite scenario "Halt" is rarely used as a translation of "Arrêt".

But I'll totally agree that Québecers are a bit...hm... special with their French because they are worried about preserving that language in north america where most of the business is done in English first...heck they even created a Charter for the preservation of the language, but being the official language in the province they're doing their darndest to not use as many words "borrowed from English". That's also why you'll see them trying to differentiate themselves and fighting to save their culture and traditions and such...and some, to the extreme, will look at secession as a valid option

Obviously all these concepts are a bit rusty me, i only studied one year in translation towards a bachelor's, about 13 years ago, where i learned that working in lexicon and semantics weren't my thing (and moved to ontario after that)
 
I was in French immersion from kindergarten and dropped out mid way through grade 7 due to bullying from classmates. In the end I regret it as I've been taking courses with the local French college to become more fluent. I have a pretty solid base, but many of the other students struggle with even the alphabet so it's fairly frustrating, especially now that class is all done via zoom.

I want to be bilingual because I think it's neat knowing another language and also for jobs as I have missed out some by not being fluent. Just finished Advanced 2 at College Boreal, but will be waiting until in class can resume in person and probably retake this course as the zoom class sucked ***.

So yes, I think it's beneficial to put your kid into French immersion. Really any second language is helpful
 
I did French and Spanish at high school in the UK. We had a sadist as a French teacher and the first time he heard students mix Spanish up with French he basically threatened us with bodily harm if we did it again so the Spanish classes ended. Didn’t really do anything with languages again until Uni when I took a few work placements (1 year) in France. To prepare us we had “scientific“ French lessons. Beaker...brine...vocabulary to do with reactions etc. Anyway..got to France the first time and realized I couldn’t do much but you learn very very fast once immersed in the environment. It was more to do with survival...pain/fromage gets old very quick. After undergrad I went back and lived/worked in France for 3 more years. Loved every minute of it.

Anyway...long story short..immersion works and can open opportunities. If I hadn’t taken French all those years ago, I wouldn’t be where I am now, with the job I have now and I wouldn’t have met my wife! I always encourage my students to get themselves outside their comfort zone and go and live in a different country for a bit to get a different perspective. Sometimes the starting point of that is learning a language.
 
jc100 said:
I did French and Spanish at high school in the UK. We had a sadist as a French teacher and the first time he heard students mix Spanish up with French he basically threatened us with bodily harm if we did it again so the Spanish classes ended. Didn’t really do anything with languages again until Uni when I took a few work placements (1 year) in France. To prepare us we had “scientific“ French lessons. Beaker...brine...vocabulary to do with reactions etc. Anyway..got to France the first time and realized I couldn’t do much but you learn very very fast once immersed in the environment. It was more to do with survival...pain/fromage gets old very quick. After undergrad I went back and lived/worked in France for 3 more years. Loved every minute of it.

Anyway...long story short..immersion works and can open opportunities. If I hadn’t taken French all those years ago, I wouldn’t be where I am now, with the job I have now and I wouldn’t have met my wife! I always encourage my students to get themselves outside their comfort zone and go and live in a different country for a bit to get a different perspective. Sometimes the starting point of that is learning a language.
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I'm with you on gaining experience by going places outside your comfort zone. I place less value on 2nd languages.

I lived in several countries for extended periods, picking up enough French and German and Gaelic to get by. Those skills were mostly useful in my wild youthful pursuits, not so much afterwards. Sports and arts are just as valuable IMHO. My BIL was a course pro golfer and and a JrB hockey player -- he leveraged those greatly in his career. Same with one of my sons, he used his athletics for university, a reality TV role, and a pretty good career opportunity.

I think the point is do something that is challenging and differentiating - languages, arts, sports... they all open doors.
 
LePhillou said:
The definition of a "Stop" has the word Arrêt in it....as per the Larousse dictionary

Just like the French from france will use "weekend" and québec will use Fin de semaine, or "shopping" instead of magasinage, "email" instead of courriel, etc etc... France has adopted a lot of English wording within their language. And in every single "explanation" for road signage, every single instance that will have a "stop" as their stop sign in french, will have "arrêt" in their definition explaining what the signage means. So i wouldn't see an issue with the word "Arrêt" on a sign that tells you "de s'arrêter à l'intersection"

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It is extremely frustrating for people who speak Parisian French in the tech world when dealing with Quebecois as they tend to avoid use of the GLOBAL technical terms that have roots in English and they substitute them with other "french" words.

Outside of tech, languages cross pollinate continually, there are many words in English that came from French 100s of years ago, some of these words have been "replaced" in typical Quebecois dialect as they are now perceived as English words. There are also many cases where a old word was originally French, used extensively in English and now Quebecois uses a different set of words....

All the Parisian French people I know and work with actually comment that Quebecois sounds to them like an old fashion French dialect.
 
backmarkerducati said:
It is extremely frustrating for people who speak Parisian French in the tech world when dealing with Quebecois as they tend to avoid use of the GLOBAL technical terms that have roots in English and they substitute them with other "french" words.

Outside of tech, languages cross pollinate continually, there are many words in English that came from French 100s of years ago, some of these words have been "replaced" in typical Quebecois dialect as they are now perceived as English words. There are also many cases where a old word was originally French, used extensively in English and now Quebecois uses a different set of words....

All the Parisian French people I know and work with actually comment that Quebecois sounds to them like an old fashion French dialect.
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That's exactly correct....my French buddies pointed to an area of France that still has a dialect similar to Quebecois where older French terms are still used. Can’t remember which area it was but it’s southern France.
 
English has the market cornered when it comes to swear words,I mean seriously :/ scare-bleu is that the best you can do!
You can't really curse somebody out unless you drop to a lower form of English.
 
Trials said:
English has the market cornered when it comes to swear words,I mean seriously :/ scare-bleu is that the best you can do!
You can't really curse somebody out unless you drop to a lower form of English.
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nobody says that...though... ;)
I've never heard someone use it as a "serious" swear word;

Quebec swears are all about the church (for the most part) and a lot of them can be conjugated or used as nouns or adjectives like... so basically "****" but used with different word

"Osti de st-siboire de tabarnac! Mange un criss char de marde pis va jouer dans l'traffic"

French in France swear are more about whores, calling your mom a whore, sex-related things, excrements et just calling the person an idiot in different ways

"Va t'faire mettre espèce d'enfant de chienne et retourne te branler dans ton merdier, connard"
 
Great, we start off on a discussion of whether or not its a benefit to teach a child a second language in and immersion setting and move on to which language has the most effective swear words.
**** me.
 
I thought we already figured out it is beneficial :unsure: and where in the world could you go and not learn the swear words
... you need to know what not to say.

plus that is the best Monty Python scene ever, it sums up the hilarity of it.
 
crankcall said:
Great, we start off on a discussion of whether or not its a benefit to teach a child a second language in and immersion setting and move on to which language has the most effective swear words.
**** me.
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I'll be damned if my kids don't use the right swear words!
 
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