Man, this thread has brought out the entitled and crazies. It's been proven in Europe and even if you think about it logically that permanent camera radars will slow down vehicles in that area better than random police traps.
Even the stupidest driver would stop speeding in that spot or take another route after the second ticket, if not the first.
This is overdue in school zones and other high-risk areas.
Photo Radar was a **** show on the 401. Everyone braking any time something resembling a vehicle on the hard shoulder. It was causing more problems. I was so glad when Mike Harris actually used the elimination of photo radar as one of his campaign promises. (Ha a politician actually doing something he said he would).
P.s You can't compare anything traffic related in Europe with the GTA. Over there superior drivers. Here-cornflakes box winners.
There is truth to this. We could solve a lot of problems by re-designing our licensing system to hold drivers to a higher standard, as other countries have done
I don't know if I want it to be crippling, but it has to have an impact on the person receiving it + I'd want speed limits that reflected the speed that maybe 85% were doing, not the completely unrealistic limits we have now on 400 series highways and rural roads.
As an example of the process make moving violation tickets progressive and geared to income. Ist offence for a guy making $50k would be 0.5% of income or $250, if you make $200k then fine is $1,000. 2nd offence 1% or $500 and $2,000. 3rd offence 2% or $1,000 and $4,000.
Above lets everyone get caught and some incentive to change behaviour. If you caught again the pain level goes up and of course you also have the impact on your insurance rates as well. The truly stupid, or just very unlucky, get snatched a third time and then the real pain begins in terms of fine cost.
There is truth to this. We could solve a lot of problems by re-designing our licensing system to hold drivers to a higher standard, as other countries have done
Sorry Euro pro fans, I have a fair number of miles in a few Euro countries under my butt. Superior drivers? not so much, in many municipal areas the horn is second control to the steering wheel and parking is by braile , wiggle bump, wiggle bump. There are no square corners on a daily driver in Rome. Better licencing just means a slower path to being an uberdouche, they'll get there.
Or start now and as the population gets older less and less underqualified drivers would be on the road. The fact we don't retest in certain intervals is ridicuoulous.
Well... If driving is a privilege then perhaps the penalty for speeding should be so crippling that people would obey posted limits?
The penalty for going 50kmh over the posted limit includes roadside seizure..?
Why wait until 50 over...?
Make it 20 over and you're car is towed.
But no, they do this balancing act between looking like we're taking speeding seriously and generating revenue by having a system where you get several chances to reoffend before any real consequences.
I don't think many tickets actually generate money for Govt, I'm certain they do for insurance companies and in the case of impoundment, towing companies.
Just think about it for a second, most tickets in Ontario are $85 - $200. Anything bigger than that is $1200, and often reduced by 1/2 as those often go to court. To generate this revenue you have a cop in a car @$100/hr [lus the gov't administrative overhead for mailing, clerking, and the Ontario court expenses. My bet is each ticket costs the taxpayer money.
Also, having your car roadside impounded isn't a nice thing, particularly by the OPP. If you are picked up on an OPP roadside, the tow and storage fees are about $1000 + $100 a day for towing + a $300 licence reinstatement fee. And it's martial law, there is no fighting, no appeal -- the cop is judge and jury, if you are exonerated the $2K inconvenience is still your problem..
To generate this revenue you have a cop in a car @$100/hr [lus the gov't administrative overhead for mailing, clerking, and the Ontario court expenses. My bet is each ticket costs the taxpayer money.
All those folks are being paid regardless...
I'm just saying if the state was 100% working in the interest of public safety we'd see something other than tickets and nominal fines
All those folks are being paid regardless...
I'm just saying if the state was 100% working in the interest of public safety we'd see something other than tickets and nominal fines
Sorry Euro pro fans, I have a fair number of miles in a few Euro countries under my butt. Superior drivers? not so much, in many municipal areas the horn is second control to the steering wheel and parking is by braile , wiggle bump, wiggle bump. There are no square corners on a daily driver in Rome. Better licencing just means a slower path to being an uberdouche, they'll get there.
A lot of those dents come from trying to park in spaces too small for the car. Bumpers in France really were used as bumpers to move vehicles a bit to get room.
Just think about it for a second, most tickets in Ontario are $85 - $200. Anything bigger than that is $1200, and often reduced by 1/2 as those often go to court. To generate this revenue you have a cop in a car @$100/hr [lus the gov't administrative overhead for mailing, clerking, and the Ontario court expenses. My bet is each ticket costs the taxpayer money.
Then they need to increase the costs of tickets dramatically, perhaps...as well as add sliding scales based on if you decide to fight the ticket in court or just willingly pay - this is how the distracted ticket works now - $615 if settled out of court, more if you decide to fight it and lose.
I guarantee you they make money at $615.
Perhaps the issue is more to do with the ticket values being out of whack and stuck in the 1980's....
Sorry, but I'm frankly tired of the free for all when it comes to operating a motor vehicle in this province. If you spent your days on the road for a living like I do, you'd share my opinion in a month or three...trust me.
I have NO issues with a crack down. Call it a cash grab (it's not, follow the laws..you don't lose any cash, it's simple) or whatever people want to call it, I don't care. I just want to be able to get from A to B without the risk of being involved in a wreck not of my own causing, or worrying about my family members out on the roads being put at even more risk because they're not in a massive vehicle like I am.
I prefer to have police officers fight real crime and concentrate on things such as drugs, gangs, organized crime etc and NOT on income generation by writing tickets to drivers doing safe speeds. Also, I prefer the speed limits to be realistic of the speeds that the majority of drivers can do safely, such as on the 400 highways the majority can do 120+ safely. Yet the posted speed limits remain at 100, despite the fact that research from traffic experts show 100 is too low...
There is truth to this. We could solve a lot of problems by re-designing our licensing system to hold drivers to a higher standard, as other countries have done
I have wondered about making licencing harder for a while. I think making tougher graduated licencing rules for motorcyclists, busses and large trucks (especially large trucks) would be helpful. Motorcycles fundamentals take longer to master, riding skills, particularly defensive riding, take thousands of KM and usually a couple of years to reach proficiency. I like the power to weigh restrictions used in Europe and Australia's graduated systems.
For trucks -- that one kills me. It's pretty easy to become a pro truck driver -- DZ is about $800 and a few days? BZ School bus driver course is 7 hours? Rarely do I feel threatened riding beside a big rig, its straight trucks, dump trucks and school busses that scare me.
For cars, I don't think tougher licencing is the solution. Learning to drive a car is pretty easy, my kids learned on a manual shift jeep on cottage roads and through farm fields when they were 12, it took them about the same amount of time to learn how to ride a bike when they were 5. I've driven all over Europe, they have just as many incompetent drivers as we do.
I believe enforcement and penalties are the key. If you can roll stop signs, cheat in HOV lanes, text while driving, leaf lane loaf with impunity, you will. Penalties for situations that have aggravated outcomes (property damage and injuries) should also be more severe - how about 6 demerit points gets you G1 restrictions for a year?
They're called bumpers for a reason. They're supposed to be used for bumping. Silly Canadians wasting money by not using all the features of their vehicle as intended.
It became significantly harder to get a class A licence as of a year or so ago.
Unfortunately, that's not going to fix the 20+ years worth of absolute garbage drivers that many "schools" put onto our roads - that cat is out of the bag.
They're called bumpers for a reason. They're supposed to be used for bumping. Silly Canadians wasting money by not using all the features of their vehicle as intended.
You laugh, but about 5 years ago I heard my sister mutter exactly that (Bumpers are for bumping!) after I commented that she bumped both the vehicle behind as well as in front of her while attempting a parallel park. I had to bite my tongue beyond that point.
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I'm actually OK with this as it's only school zones. It'll start to enlarge the zones that they're used in. And people are either going to damage them or start slowing down in those areas (which is great in school zones). But a lot of school zones are only 40kph during certain times/months so I hope the programming reflects this as well.
EDIT: Put them on the highway but instead of putting them on the side of the road in vans/cars...just put them on the overhead signs. I remember in Australia they had warnings....Photo Radar in 1000m....500m...100m...and if you're too stupid to get that message, well you deserve the fine.
As others mentioned, it's becoming a **** show on the roads, and while always against photo radar...I'm coming around.
I'm actually OK with this as it's only school zones. It'll start to enlarge the zones that they're used in. And people are either going to damage them or start slowing down in those areas (which is great in school zones). But a lot of school zones are only 40kph during certain times/months so I hope the programming reflects this as well.
In the current situation with all playgrounds locked up, school zones are basically fishing holes. There are no more children in the school zone than any other residential street, there is just a lower speed limit.
In the current situation with all playgrounds locked up, school zones are basically fishing holes. There are no more children in the school zone than any other residential street, there is just a lower speed limit.
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