First step in privatizing healthcare? | Page 4 | GTAMotorcycle.com

First step in privatizing healthcare?

The hybride system has existed for years , Doug is helping it expand . I dont think we are looking at liver transplants at the local shop next to Freshco , but getting simple day surgeries out of a general hospital makes some sense. Its a really big machine processing small orders at a hospital right now.
Will there be 'interesting billing' in the private sector? yup. Are there doctors running very expensive private clinics doing therapy that is a bit off the general radar ( Occulation therapy) yes. Will always be thus. I hope there is some oversight, there has always been workers of the system , and yes they also exist in the hospital setting. Daily.
Our biggest hurdle in my opinion are the nurses accociations (unions) that make it hard to move between provinces , and the College of Physicians which makes it very hard to get into the club.

The wait times at many hospitals for MRI ect. is often not that the line up is miles long, they process they use to fill spots often leaves the machine not running, and the number of patients they can process in a shift cycle allows for a lot of gaps . Some efficiencies that will be found in the private sector will be a benefit.
 
MacDoc said:
Mike Harris took responsibilty despite your apologetics. I'm just dissing your broad brush of private is inherently better.
How's the mess we call Ontario Hydro working out? Rogers? Private elder care?

Secondary services such as xrays and blood work are fine with proper oversight....not primary care.

Australia has a successful mix of both private and public that work together that is not likely transportable to Canada with the US companies champing at the bit to break in and leverage NAFTA as they'd love to do with water.

Australia also has a very strong union underpinning to prevent workers being exploited.

There are lots of competitive venues for private money to play.....the one I lived in for 37 years...computers....there are few that need to remain public water, education, roads, parks for instance ....and a few where a mix of private and public ...housing...is a necessity to blunt the kind of stupidity that the Toronto housing market is presenting to the world.
The first thing Canada did post WWII was build affordable housing for returning military.

Managed mixed economies like Norways are not subject to the fickleness of so called "market forces" that dominate thinking in the US.

Efficiency is in no way the purvue of private concerns and governments have learned about good business practice but governments are not businesses and have a different set of parameters.
There is room for both the post office AND Fedex et al.....both need quality management and their workers protection from predation.
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I don't think there is talk about primary care changing. There are a range of services that are routine, like cataract surgery, that can be done much more effectively in a purpose-built clinic. Procedures that can be delivered in specialized clinics will get honed to achieve higher quality and efficiency, through process and technology -- particularly when competitive forces are at play.

Not likely heart transplants are heading in this direction.

Gov't needs to be into things the private sector cannot do, or do competitively-- gov't should not be in competition with well the private sector unless there is a financial upside for the taxpayer. Gov't may need to be engaged as a regulator to maintain acceptable standards, and sometimes as a service providers when there is no viable private option.

I can't speak about the Austrailian experience.
 
crankcall said:
The hybride system has existed for years , Doug is helping it expand . I dont think we are looking at liver transplants at the local shop next to Freshco , but getting simple day surgeries out of a general hospital makes some sense. Its a really big machine processing small orders at a hospital right now.
Will there be 'interesting billing' in the private sector? yup. Are there doctors running very expensive private clinics doing therapy that is a bit off the general radar ( Occulation therapy) yes. Will always be thus. I hope there is some oversight, there has always been workers of the system , and yes they also exist in the hospital setting. Daily.
Our biggest hurdle in my opinion are the nurses accociations (unions) that make it hard to move between provinces , and the College of Physicians which makes it very hard to get into the club.

The wait times at many hospitals for MRI ect. is often not that the line up is miles long, they process they use to fill spots often leaves the machine not running, and the number of patients they can process in a shift cycle allows for a lot of gaps . Some efficiencies that will be found in the private sector will be a benefit.
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My two cents on the Walkerton situation was that the two brothers that ran the show did not understand the chemistry. They just figured if you dumped some stuff in the water it was good enough.

The same goes for amateur electricians, plumbers, beam cutting carpenters, mimico_polak's Kevin, people with stuff tied to the roof of their car with string etc.

There is no job so simple that someone can't screw it up.

My concern is that all too often a person is given just enough training to do the job. Training costs money.

Then they become complacent and gradually take on new duties, going beyond their capabilities.
 
MacDoc said:
Oversight also costs money, lack of oversight can cost lives.
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Does it cost more for a fully qualified worker or a partially trained worker plus an overseer?

Some ocean racers had to carry a spare tiller because they were built so light the tillers would often break. Why not just make the tiller stronger and skip the spare?
 
backmarkerducati said:
As the workers are a finite resource in short supply across the poaching just makes the problem worse somewhere else, but even worse yet it will eventually just drive up wages even more as each province poaches from the others.

I am all for the portability and people having the right to work where they want with less red tape if they are qualified but right now this just makes an bad situation worse, how much worse may depend on which province you are in. With Ontario's high cost of living it may be a losing proposition here.
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I don't have a problem with wages being adjusted to meet demands, I think that may be part of the problem we face in ON, particularly with Drs and Nurses.

My son's GF is a nurse up north, she makes about $38/hr. There aren't enough nurses, so hospitals pay Travel Nurses (contractors) $60-90/hr + accommodations to fill in. Once the $38/hr nurse gets 2 years experience, they leave to be a contract nurse.
 
I agree the wages are a bit of an issue for Dr.s and nurses, Drs with a specialty have a billing limit with OHIP, at a point thet are maxed for the year. Dentists have no billing ceiling . Better to be a dentist. My pal the Cardiologist works three days a week , tues/wed/thurs because he maxs out for the yr in that time frame.
being a travel nurse is the new way to make better money , for nurses, but its a young persons game, live on a rez in noweher for 2w weeks , hard to have a family. And it really doesn't suit everyone. My wife would never do it regardless of the pay, we have friends doing it and they are pretty happy. However the obvious downside, it takes nurses out of hospitals and clinics down here
 
crankcall said:
I agree the wages are a bit of an issue for Dr.s and nurses, Drs with a specialty have a billing limit with OHIP, at a point thet are maxed for the year. Dentists have no billing ceiling . Better to be a dentist. My pal the Cardiologist works three days a week , tues/wed/thurs because he maxs out for the yr in that time frame.
being a travel nurse is the new way to make better money , for nurses, but its a young persons game, live on a rez in noweher for 2w weeks , hard to have a family. And it really doesn't suit everyone. My wife would never do it regardless of the pay, we have friends doing it and they are pretty happy. However the obvious downside, it takes nurses out of hospitals and clinics down here
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You are right it's mostly a young persons game. The big money, $60-200/hr, is in remote work.

There are other private options, like St E., Nurse-next-Door that pay more, easier work, M-F 9-5 schedules. OHIP uses a lot of these nurses.
 
crankcall said:
I agree the wages are a bit of an issue for Dr.s and nurses, Drs with a specialty have a billing limit with OHIP, at a point thet are maxed for the year. Dentists have no billing ceiling . Better to be a dentist. My pal the Cardiologist works three days a week , tues/wed/thurs because he maxs out for the yr in that time frame.
being a travel nurse is the new way to make better money , for nurses, but its a young persons game, live on a rez in noweher for 2w weeks , hard to have a family. And it really doesn't suit everyone. My wife would never do it regardless of the pay, we have friends doing it and they are pretty happy. However the obvious downside, it takes nurses out of hospitals and clinics down here
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When I had a minor surgery at a private clinic I was amazed at how congenial the procedure was and asking myself why the general hospitals couldn't be the same.

Firstly, ER can't be taken into account as their workload can change as fast as a train can hit a bus or a clot hit the heart.

What ever happened to having a box of bandages around the house for a cut finger? Then I think about the time I slipped, fell and smacked my forehead on a railing, getting a cut. I called Telehealth and was told to go to ER. They checked for a detached retina and gave me a few stitches, no eye issues but What if???

A half century ago I dated a nurse from India and she was amazed at how much time she had to spend with patients. We've totally lost contact but I wonder what changes she has seen along the way.

How much ethic can we afford?

If there is a multi million dollar drug or procedure that might extend a person's life a few months or a year is it unethical to let them die? Now we discuss euthanasia and MAiD.

Is our medicare budget realistic? I've read that our property taxes are half what they should be and we keep the low rates through development and other fees. Then we b**** about developers crowding neighbourhoods. Is OHIP the same?

In any occupation, what salary would make a worker happy?

Answer: A lot more than I made last year because I want more stuff and a bigger place to put it.

Progress is a fickle monster.
 
nobbie48 said:
When I had a minor surgery at a private clinic I was amazed at how congenial the procedure was and asking myself why the general hospitals couldn't be the same.

Firstly, ER can't be taken into account as their workload can change as fast as a train can hit a bus or a clot hit the heart.

What ever happened to having a box of bandages around the house for a cut finger? Then I think about the time I slipped, fell and smacked my forehead on a railing, getting a cut. I called Telehealth and was told to go to ER. They checked for a detached retina and gave me a few stitches, no eye issues but What if???

A half century ago I dated a nurse from India and she was amazed at how much time she had to spend with patients. We've totally lost contact but I wonder what changes she has seen along the way.

How much ethic can we afford?

If there is a multi million dollar drug or procedure that might extend a person's life a few months or a year is it unethical to let them die? Now we discuss euthanasia and MAiD.

Is our medicare budget realistic? I've read that our property taxes are half what they should be and we keep the low rates through development and other fees. Then we b**** about developers crowding neighbourhoods. Is OHIP the same?

In any occupation, what salary would make a worker happy?

Answer: A lot more than I made last year because I want more stuff and a bigger place to put it.

Progress is a fickle monster.
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The property tax question can be answered, we get what we decide we want in our community. Don't like the local taxes and services? Move.

I think you need an appointment with a Philosopher to answer the other questions.

While you are there, can you ask about Rotella (for a friend)?
 
nobbie48 said:
When I had a minor surgery at a private clinic I was amazed at how congenial the procedure was and asking myself why the general hospitals couldn't be the same.

Firstly, ER can't be taken into account as their workload can change as fast as a train can hit a bus or a clot hit the heart.

What ever happened to having a box of bandages around the house for a cut finger? Then I think about the time I slipped, fell and smacked my forehead on a railing, getting a cut. I called Telehealth and was told to go to ER. They checked for a detached retina and gave me a few stitches, no eye issues but What if???

A half century ago I dated a nurse from India and she was amazed at how much time she had to spend with patients. We've totally lost contact but I wonder what changes she has seen along the way.

How much ethic can we afford?

If there is a multi million dollar drug or procedure that might extend a person's life a few months or a year is it unethical to let them die? Now we discuss euthanasia and MAiD.

Is our medicare budget realistic? I've read that our property taxes are half what they should be and we keep the low rates through development and other fees. Then we b**** about developers crowding neighbourhoods. Is OHIP the same?

In any occupation, what salary would make a worker happy?

Answer: A lot more than I made last year because I want more stuff and a bigger place to put it.

Progress is a fickle monster.
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I dont understand telehealth. They are completely useless. 100% of the time you call they say go to the ER if you are concerned. Telehealth either needs to be useful or have all its funding pushed to actual healthcare. The only thing that makes sense is it is either a slush fund or a place to push turds that the union wont let them fire.
 
GreyGhost said:
I dont understand telehealth. They are completely useless. 100% of the time you call they say go to the ER if you are concerned. Telehealth either needs to be useful or have all its funding pushed to actual healthcare. The only thing that makes sense is it is either a slush fund or a place to push turds that the union wont let them fire.
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TBH I wouldn't want to be a doctor working for telehealth. The person the doctor would be talking to couldn't properly describe the problem and would likely mess up the prescribed treatment. Unless you have a OBD plug on you neck, everything is guesswork.
 
Not a place to push turds , you apply and interview for telehealth like any job . However they are hiring constantly. The building is near the huge Canada Bread building off the 427 . You have to want to drive to that hole to work.
Wife lasted 6 months in there . It’s no fun .


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crankcall said:
Not a place to push turds , you apply and interview for telehealth like any job . However they are hiring constantly. The building is near the huge Canada Bread building off the 427 . You have to want to drive to that hole to work.
Wife lasted 6 months in there . It’s no fun .


Sent from my iPhone using GTAMotorcycle.com
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Maybe just replace it with ai that pretends to listen then says go to the ER. Would be a better use they could hire the ups chatbot that is just as useful.

Sent from the future
 
I miss being able to call a doctor and have them come to your house after hours for a consult. Much nicer to wait an hour or 2 in the comfort of your own bed/couch then an emergency room when you need a doc but not necessarily a hospital.
 
DownUnder said:
I miss being able to call a doctor and have them come to your house after hours for a consult. Much nicer to wait an hour or 2 in the comfort of your own bed/couch then an emergency room when you need a doc but not necessarily a hospital.
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Oz still has that. It works well. If you are special needs, you can get assigned a doctor that always comes to you. Based on your history, maybe that's where you experienced it.
 
So imagine working at 3am and some dill hole calls in , is this dial a nurse ? What are you wearing ? Too high to understand call display. Yeah , it’s a thing .


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crankcall said:
So imagine working at 3am and some dill hole calls in , is this dial a nurse ? What are you wearing ? Too high to understand call display. Yeah , it’s a thing .


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Sounds like another great reason to cancel it.

Sent from the future
 
DownUnder said:
I miss being able to call a doctor and have them come to your house after hours for a consult. Much nicer to wait an hour or 2 in the comfort of your own bed/couch then an emergency room when you need a doc but not necessarily a hospital.
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Oz still has that. It works well. If you are special needs, you can get assigned a doctor that always comes to you. Based on your history, maybe that's where you experienced it
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Yeah my b-in-law came down with shingles ( ugh ) and had a doctor there in 2 hours and the script for the a/b picked up in another hour. ( this is 10 at night ) It is a nice feature here.
 
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