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Fire department Bill

Would people tolerate Police billing for being called out to a crime or accident etc? they are funded by the taxpayer also.

"Sorry maam we didn't catch your rapist now here is a bill for $300 and because we had to use 3 officers on the chase that bill is now $900. Have a nice day!"
 
TFD bills for false alarms.
 
Would people tolerate Police billing for being called out to a crime or accident etc? they are funded by the taxpayer also.

"Sorry maam we didn't catch your rapist now here is a bill for $300 and because we had to use 3 officers on the chase that bill is now $900. Have a nice day!"

Bit of a deffence in budgets between the two. Look how long a fire truck stays in service then look at how many cop cars get written off in that same period of time.
 
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You think the firefighters are pocketing this money, what does being paid well have to do with charging a fee? These fees are used to pay for the supplies that are used at a incident. Its not like it goes into a pot and the ff's get a bonus at the end of the year.

Well here's the prob though,you and I alraedy flipped the bill for those supplies through the taxes we pay, thats double dipping, thats like you buy a bike for ten grand and pay tax on it, then the dealer charges you another ten grand to replace the bike you jus bought, and calls it a stock and supplies fee...
 
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Would people tolerate Police billing for being called out to a crime or accident etc? they are funded by the taxpayer also.

"Sorry maam we didn't catch your rapist now here is a bill for $300 and because we had to use 3 officers on the chase that bill is now $900. Have a nice day!"

Around the 2003 the cops were trying to do the same thing, and even had telemarketers calling people trying to raise money, but have seemed to have abandoned the idea for now..
 
Fire dept bills for response to traffic accidents are usually a minimum of $800, the city of Toronto and Mississauga are usually a little less, but across the province the average fire dept bill for responding to a traffic accident is about $1200.
Contrary to a previous post some municipalities (not all) will bill their own residence i.e. read the Town of Markham by-law. Other municipalities have similar by-laws.
A typical fire dept invoice will usually involve three vehicles (Toronto and Mississauga usually bill for 1 or 2 vehicles). The typical services they charge for on the invoice may include any or all of the following:
Fire Prevention, Extinguishing fire, extrication, clean up, cutting the battery terminals and traffic control.

These invoices aren't trivial amounts, the highest one I have ever seen was for over $8000 and included three fire trucks (Pumper, rescue and tanker) who sat beside a dead moose on the highway until the transport dept came to remove the moose. The motorist who hit the moose (and who barely escaped with their life) was billed over $8000 including the costs associated with baby sitting the dead moose.

Some municipalities are also charing residents for extinguishing fires at homes, and these amounts can be in the seveal thousand dollar range - for example see Caledon, Meaford and others. It's also interesting to see that this has now become a business for some enterprising companies i.e. Fire Marquee.
 
Fire dept. assumes you have auto, bike or home insurance. Therefore they don't expect the individual to pay out of pocket and that's also why those bills are high.
 
Fire dept bills for response to traffic accidents are usually a minimum of $800, the city of Toronto and Mississauga are usually a little less, but across the province the average fire dept bill for responding to a traffic accident is about $1200.
Contrary to a previous post some municipalities (not all) will bill their own residence i.e. read the Town of Markham by-law. Other municipalities have similar by-laws.
A typical fire dept invoice will usually involve three vehicles (Toronto and Mississauga usually bill for 1 or 2 vehicles). The typical services they charge for on the invoice may include any or all of the following:
Fire Prevention, Extinguishing fire, extrication, clean up, cutting the battery terminals and traffic control.

These invoices aren't trivial amounts, the highest one I have ever seen was for over $8000 and included three fire trucks (Pumper, rescue and tanker) who sat beside a dead moose on the highway until the transport dept came to remove the moose. The motorist who hit the moose (and who barely escaped with their life) was billed over $8000 including the costs associated with baby sitting the dead moose.

Some municipalities are also charing residents for extinguishing fires at homes, and these amounts can be in the seveal thousand dollar range - for example see Caledon, Meaford and others. It's also interesting to see that this has now become a business for some enterprising companies i.e. Fire Marquee.


LOL. Ohhh boy ..

Let me guess, you wanted to be a FF but you couldnt get on and now your angry about it.

If only i had the time to punch holes in your "storybook"
 
LOL. Ohhh boy ..

Let me guess, you wanted to be a FF but you couldnt get on and now your angry about it.

If only i had the time to punch holes in your "storybook"

when you get a chance i would be interested to see another side of the story
 
I still see NO issue with having a user fee for public services that are already subsidised in order to:

1. accurately shift the financial burden to users
2. deterr frivilous use of public services.

Post secondary is subsidized but you still pay tuition if you are going, if the (covered in taxes) arguement holds. do you believe in raising taxes to an extent that post secondary education should be free? I dont' believe that and I left school with 80 k in debt.

You pay taxes, but you also pay fees to:
obtain a driver's licence
obtain a passport
take a driving test
take the bus
etc etc etc..

should we not pay money for transit even though bus drivers are "paid well?"

What a bunch of ridiculous arguments in this thread.
 
I still see NO issue with having a user fee for public services that are already subsidised in order to:

1. accurately shift the financial burden to users
2. deterr frivilous use of public services.

Post secondary is subsidized but you still pay tuition if you are going, if the (covered in taxes) arguement holds. do you believe in raising taxes to an extent that post secondary education should be free? I dont' believe that and I left school with 80 k in debt.

You pay taxes, but you also pay fees to:
obtain a driver's licence
obtain a passport
take a driving test
take the bus
etc etc etc..

should we not pay money for transit even though bus drivers are "paid well?"

What a bunch of ridiculous arguments in this thread.

That argument is kinda flawed..

1. Financial burden cant be shifted to users, ambulances are not taxi's,police are not bounty hunters all of which are providing a service for a fee and receive no public money.

2. There are laws that cover the misuse of public services in place.


Post secondary school is optional in Canada no body chooses to have an accident or have there house burn down.


All of what you described in your list are all taxes,
in jus different forms, including but limited to riding the bus, its just another city tax



The fire department ,police ,ambulance should stick to what they are paid to do, which is save lives, and stop masquerading as the TAX MAN, we already have enough of those..




The arguments here make allot of sense in my op.
 
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Some other posters have asked whether or not everyone would have coverage for fire dept bills under their automobile policy.

The provisions of the policy that provide coverage for Fire Dept Charges is provided under section 7 of the policy. Section 7 of the policy is the Optional Coverage section and not everyone has this on their policy.

Some people could find themselves in a position where they aren't covered by their insurance for fire dept charges.
 
We already have user fees for a lot of medical services.

Not every instance of medical need or where the fire department is called is a matter of life or death. provided that there is a hardship clause. I still see no problem with charging user fees for even "essential" services.
 
The medical user fees we pay for, "were", but no longer covered by Ohip . Emergency services costs are covered fully by the municipality you live in, or provincially . The fee's apply if it's a genuine matter of life and death or not. There is no hardship clause in place, your file will be transferred to collections if you have the inability to pay. There is a BIG problem for charging then recharging for essential services in my op.
 
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The medical user fees we pay for, "were", but no longer covered by Ohip . Emergency services costs are covered fully by the municipality you live in, or provincially . The fee's apply if it's a genuine matter of life and death or not. There is no hardship clause in place, your file will be transferred to collections if you have the inability to pay. There is a BIG problem for charging then recharging for essential services in my op.

I have never actually heard of a case where a guy's house burned down and then went bankrupt because he was unable to pay the fire department bill.

have you? or are you rallying against something that doesn't really exist?
 
It absolutely happens. Check with the town of Caledon for example.

Admittely, it is less common where you get a bill when your house burns down, but it does happen.

Like auto accidents, they were rare 10 years ago, now it's a rampant billing process.

Property matters (like your house burning down) are just gaining momentum. See the company "Fire Marquee" who are now making it their personal business to collect for fire fighthing costs related to fire service. Google the town of Meaford and see for yourself from their town council meeting minutes. It's also been written up in the local newspaper.
 
It absolutely happens. Check with the town of Caledon for example.

Admittely, it is less common where you get a bill when your house burns down, but it does happen.

Like auto accidents, they were rare 10 years ago, now it's a rampant billing process.

Property matters (like your house burning down) are just gaining momentum. See the company "Fire Marquee" who are now making it their personal business to collect for fire fighthing costs related to fire service. Google the town of Meaford and see for yourself from their town council meeting minutes. It's also been written up in the local newspaper.

I don't really want to look it up, because i consider it to be the responsiblity of the person arguing for something to show the information.
 
[h=1]Meaford to recoup fire costs[/h][h=3][/h][h=4]By Don Crosby[/h][h=5]Posted 5 months ago[/h]
Meaford will try to recover some of the cost of fighting structure fires through a deal with a company that will bill insurance companies.
"There is under the home insurance a clause which allows for some of these costs that we incurred as we dispatched the fire department and the time spent fighting the fire. We can reclaim some if not all of those costs," Meaford chief executive officer Frank Miele told members of council earlier this week.
Coverage ranges from $500 to $25,000, depending on the policy.
Meaford will enter into an agreement with Fire Marque, which will act on behalf of the municipality. According to a report presented to council Monday, the company will keep 30% of the money from the insurance company.
Coun. James McIntosh argued that homeowners are already paying for the coverage, so why not make a claim?
Money obtained from insurance companies will be applied to fire prevention and public education programs, equipment purchases for the fire department and training for firefighters.
"That's why the money is to go to the fire department, so they can have better-trained staff, the public is educated on how to prevent fires and fire departments have better equipment. At the end of the day the insurance companies should pay out less because local fire departments are better equipped," said Chris Carrier, a spokesperson for Fire Marque.
Carrier assured councillors that property insurance rates won't go up as a result of the program.
"Insurance companies have been calculating premiums to include charges for fire department services even though they haven't had to pay out on the coverage," said Carrier, who noted that home fire insurance rates are not determined by the number of claims but how close a building is from a fire hydrant or fire station, if the building has a sprinkler system, what the building is made of, and whether there is an alarm system.
Carrier said the cost of home insurance premiums have risen over the years not because of the number of claims made but the increased value of the houses and their contents.
"Property insurance is a very profitable side of the insurance business. Even if you look at Slave Lake, Alberta, the losses there are not that big in the grand scheme of properties that are insured and pooled. It's really such a small amount of money in the big scheme of life," he said.
Slave Lake was hit by a forest fire earlier this year.
The process of recovering costs doesn't require the name of the homeowner, just the name of the insurance adjuster and the policy number.
"We're not interested in who the homeowner or property owner is, we're just interested in looking at the property insurance file. We determine what kind of coverage there is and how much is eligible expenses . . . to recoup to the municipal fire department," Carrier said.
Carrier said only two municipalities in Canada have been doing something similar to what he's proposing - Camrose, Alta., and Innisfil, south of Barrie. He said Innisfil it has been billing insurance companies a flat rate of $500 per fire.
"In all sincerity we believe that we can collect for them significantly more money," Carrier said.
Fire Marque Inc. is a privately owned Barrie-based company licensed in all provinces and territories.
"We don't have the expertise in house to follow up with insurance claims. That's what they do. They are prepared to follow up and they get an administrative percentage," said Miele.
 

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