Feds plan to melt ICE | Page 3 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Feds plan to melt ICE

Here’s their planned phase in…

View attachment 65013


Good luck w that.
And the effect on travel, especially staycations will be.....sandwiches on the balcony instead of a drive along the Erie Shore.

Foreign tourists arriving by ICE will be chased by children in threadbare clothes, carrying plastic Jerry cans and begging "Gas sir, Please sir, some gas please."

What did I say??? NO PLASTIC JERRY CANS will be allowed. Make them out of wood like the Trudeau spoons

Minimum wage doubles and a small Timmies is $7.00, no line ups. Donuts become the new Timbit. Timbits become Timcrumbs.

After inflation, paying cash for groceries will require a wheelbarrow for the money and a bowling bag for the food.

Hacks in Brampton open battery rebuilding shops. Brampton Fire Department doubles fleet.

If that was JT's promise don't worry. He's never kept one yet.
 
Average electric car chargers pull about 7,200 W of electricity to stay powered. ...

There are 900,000 condo units in Ontario. 900,000 X 7.2 KW = 6,480,000 Kw of power required = 6480 Mega watts.

Not quite ...

Yes, a normal level 2 (AC, overnight) charger could demand 7.2 kW ... WHEN IT IS CHARGING. And it is not charging all the time, not even close!

If I drive 60-70 km in a day (and that's in the vicinity of the population average) then that charger would need to operate for around 1.5 hours. (Mine is set for a lower amperage than that and would run for a little longer)

It is normal (and mine is like this) to set them up to charge the car overnight, when system electrical demand is low. 95+% of my EV charging is in the wee hours of the morning, while most people are sleeping.

Here's an interesting website: Power Data

Ontario has around 27,000 MW of capacity. It can get up there during hot afternoons in the summer.

Daily peaks now are around 20,000 MW, overnight dips right now are to around 15,000 MW, and it's in that vicinity from around midnight to 6 AM.

Just the differences between the daily peaks and dips are around 5,000 MW, = 5,000,000 kW, and that's enough for 700,000 7.2kW EV chargers running simultaneously (but on average, they would only be running 1.5-ish hours give or take). We don't even have to think about "smart charging" until there's the better part of a million EVs on the roads. Right now, my EV charger dumbly starts charging at whatever time it needs to in order to be done by 6:45 AM. "Smart" chargers have the capability to co-ordinate with the grid to schedule charging when available. If enough "smart" chargers were in place to distribute all of the EV charging overnight, just by making use of the power available between the peaks and the dips in demand in the 6 overnight hours, there's enough generating capacity for 3 million EV chargers. And we haven't even talked about the peak generation capacity of around 27,000 MW.

Bear in mind also that this STILL isn't right, because the electricity that is effectively "contained" in a litre of petroleum fuel, which was used in the process of pumping, refining, and transporting that fuel, is enough to account for somewhere around half the distance that the same amount of electricity would operate an EV. So, every litre of fuel saved by using an EV instead of a petrol vehicle saves about half the electricity needed to drive that EV ... which means, we only need to "find", the other half. Granted, that usage won't necessarily coincide with the daily demand profile, but we also haven't accounted for the portion of EV charging that is done during the day.

YES, there is work to be done in order to distribute the electricity to where it is needed and where it isn't available now. But, the sky is not falling.
 
Here’s their planned phase in…

View attachment 65013


Good luck w that.

I think reality is going to be a few (2 or 3) years behind that.

Keep in mind that we are not talking about heavy-duty here. (F350 Super Duty for everyone.)
 
If nobbie48s number are even close , our current grid in the GTA could not support this mandate , unless an alarming improvement is made in a decade . Which is highly unlikely, so you can get an EV, but you’ll only drive on even or odd days when it’s your turn to charge. I’ll be retired by then, but my RVing dream will be going south without me .


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Think of all those condo towers built 40,50, 60 years ago. They went with the minimum acceptable power feeds, switchgear, electrical rooms, transformer vaults etc. New switchboards to handle an extra 800 Kw isn't available to feed 60% of the cars in the garage.

Even the new ones don't have 60% charger requirements.

I don't know a lot about transmission voltages but in theory doubling the voltage doubles the power transmitted. We transmit at 115KV, 230KV and 500KV. Which of those can be doubled? Do the changes require new towers? Sub-transmission lines means getting into transformer design, playing with frequencies etc.
 
You won't, either.

You're still allowed to operate a horse and buggy on Ontario roads, a hundred years after that method of transportation ceased to be mass-market.

Ha ha ha ha. DUI buggies.
 
Since I missed out on the handguns, I'm stockpiling my manual ICE cars now, and then ICE bikes right after. And not only rural areas can't do EVs, who in their right minds would think a low-income earner can afford a $100k+ EV that requires a new $30k battery every few years? Won't even be able to buy a used car at that point.
 

Too early to make any such declaration.

I think it's going to take longer than planned and not achieve 100% success ... but greatly higher market penetration than we have now, even if not 100%, is pretty likely.
 
Since I missed out on the handguns, I'm stockpiling my manual ICE cars now, and then ICE bikes right after. And not only rural areas can't do EVs, who in their right minds would think a low-income earner can afford a $100k+ EV that requires a new $30k battery every few years? Won't even be able to buy a used car at that point.

Feel free to buy (or stockpile) whatever you want. BUT. Don't spout nonsense. And it is nonsense, and it has already come up in this thread many times before.

There is NO EVIDENCE that an EV is going to need "a new $30k battery every few years". For newer EVs with proper thermal management (not the Nissan Leaf) ... The general pattern is that the batteries will outlast the normal expected lifetime of the vehicle. YES there are occasional, rare, spectacular, newsworthy exceptions, but they are not the norm.

And MY EV, which I already own (and have a year on it) ... didn't cost $100,000. Not even close. (And yes, GM in their infinite wisdom has stopped production ... but they're bringing it back, with new battery tech and probably with NACS "Tesla" charging, in 2025.)

Seen plenty of EVs in rural driveways, even today. They have electricity, too ...
 
Since I missed out on the handguns, I'm stockpiling my manual ICE cars now, and then ICE bikes right after. And not only rural areas can't do EVs, who in their right minds would think a low-income earner can afford a $100k+ EV that requires a new $30k battery every few years? Won't even be able to buy a used car at that point.
$30k battery is pure fear mongering and statistically irrelevant. I have faith that the percentage of ice cars beyond economical repair for a part failure will vastly exceed the percentage of ev's beyond economical repair for a part failure.
 
Not quite ...

Yes, a normal level 2 (AC, overnight) charger could demand 7.2 kW ... WHEN IT IS CHARGING. And it is not charging all the time, not even close!

If I drive 60-70 km in a day (and that's in the vicinity of the population average) then that charger would need to operate for around 1.5 hours. (Mine is set for a lower amperage than that and would run for a little longer)

It is normal (and mine is like this) to set them up to charge the car overnight, when system electrical demand is low. 95+% of my EV charging is in the wee hours of the morning, while most people are sleeping.

Here's an interesting website: Power Data

Ontario has around 27,000 MW of capacity. It can get up there during hot afternoons in the summer.

Daily peaks now are around 20,000 MW, overnight dips right now are to around 15,000 MW, and it's in that vicinity from around midnight to 6 AM.

Just the differences between the daily peaks and dips are around 5,000 MW, = 5,000,000 kW, and that's enough for 700,000 7.2kW EV chargers running simultaneously (but on average, they would only be running 1.5-ish hours give or take). We don't even have to think about "smart charging" until there's the better part of a million EVs on the roads. Right now, my EV charger dumbly starts charging at whatever time it needs to in order to be done by 6:45 AM. "Smart" chargers have the capability to co-ordinate with the grid to schedule charging when available. If enough "smart" chargers were in place to distribute all of the EV charging overnight, just by making use of the power available between the peaks and the dips in demand in the 6 overnight hours, there's enough generating capacity for 3 million EV chargers. And we haven't even talked about the peak generation capacity of around 27,000 MW.

Bear in mind also that this STILL isn't right, because the electricity that is effectively "contained" in a litre of petroleum fuel, which was used in the process of pumping, refining, and transporting that fuel, is enough to account for somewhere around half the distance that the same amount of electricity would operate an EV. So, every litre of fuel saved by using an EV instead of a petrol vehicle saves about half the electricity needed to drive that EV ... which means, we only need to "find", the other half. Granted, that usage won't necessarily coincide with the daily demand profile, but we also haven't accounted for the portion of EV charging that is done during the day.

YES, there is work to be done in order to distribute the electricity to where it is needed and where it isn't available now. But, the sky is not falling.
My points were extreme but too many people think that adding a few circuits is like running an extension cord with an octopus plug. At the same time people are more self important with transportation being a hot button.

mimico_polak worked where they had charging points and cooperated with a co-worker to share the spot. Not everyone thinks that way.

Averages are great but there seems to be a growing number of people that think their needs are above average.

Allowing for two hours per car per day, 1/12th of the available parking spots would need chargers if people cooperated. I could be getting home from a long road trip and suddenly get an emergency call, requiring a full charge for next morning. What if my time allotment wasn't until noon? Even if my allotment was at a convenient time and the previous user forgot to move their vehicle, what then?

They could have a charger at every spot and they're on timers. It's a lot more costly to retrofit. Who's got the extra money?

Petty stuff. Unless it's changed, a condo can't charge for power unless they're licensed as a utility. If a flat fee is charged someone will complain about paying for some else's power.

Solutions are dependent on cooperation. I'm not seeing a lot of that today. Sadly, if Trudeau, Ford or Chow have anything to do with the situation I have no faith in it being anything but a scam. Even if it ends up working, half the money ends up in the wrong pockets.
 
Since I missed out on the handguns, I'm stockpiling my manual ICE cars now, and then ICE bikes right after. And not only rural areas can't do EVs, who in their right minds would think a low-income earner can afford a $100k+ EV that requires a new $30k battery every few years? Won't even be able to buy a used car at that point.
You are wrong to say you missed out on handguns.
There seems to be lots of them available!!!
 
Don't bend it. $41K for a quarter panel???


Wow. If a quarter panel is $41K then this must have cost more that the repairs to a Ferrari 250 GT California after kicking it off a jack while you were trying to roll back the odometer.

Crash2IMG_7288.jpg
 
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can afford a $100k+ EV that requires a new $30k battery every few years?
Exaggerate much? Your massive hyperbole does not help your argument, it only twigged me to do a google search. Average cost for a an EV in Canada is 73K so about half cost less. Average battery life 15-20 years.
 
$30k battery is pure fear mongering and statistically irrelevant. I have faith that the percentage of ice cars beyond economical repair for a part failure will vastly exceed the percentage of ev's beyond economical repair for a part failure.
I bought some LED lights from a reputable distributor and they clarified that the XX,000 hour life expectancy was an average. The odd bulb will fail much faster. Burning batteries are exciting so get media coverage.

Locally, a MB battery burst into flames but the children were uninjured when their toy sidewalk MB car went up in smoke. Toy car, toy level battery.

For the EV batteries, they need a better warranty. If I regularly change the oil on my ICE I can get 300,000 Kms over 15 years. The vehicle owes me nothing at that point.

Possibly extend the battery warranty (8 years, 160,000 km) to 15 years, 300,000 Km with the extra warranty being pro rated. Seven years at $4,000 a year or anything but sudden death and $20,000 funeral. It should boost used EV prices

I don't think battery insurance would fly. In reality a warranty is insurance built into the sales price.

For me, once a car is over a certain age / mileage / condition it becomes a grocery getter and never further from home than a CAA tow.

The lithium batteries for my infrared camera are 14 years old and haven't incinerated. Power wise I'd be lucky to get a few percent of the original power.

ICE cars have automatic transmissions and radiators that fail as well. How much does an EV offset that.

The price scare of a battery is not different, to a degree, to high end vehicles as well. A lot of people are afraid of MB, BMW, Audi that are out of warranty.
 
Feel free to buy (or stockpile) whatever you want. BUT. Don't spout nonsense. And it is nonsense, and it has already come up in this thread many times before.

There is NO EVIDENCE that an EV is going to need "a new $30k battery every few years". For newer EVs with proper thermal management (not the Nissan Leaf) ... The general pattern is that the batteries will outlast the normal expected lifetime of the vehicle. YES there are occasional, rare, spectacular, newsworthy exceptions, but they are not the norm.

And MY EV, which I already own (and have a year on it) ... didn't cost $100,000. Not even close. (And yes, GM in their infinite wisdom has stopped production ... but they're bringing it back, with new battery tech and probably with NACS "Tesla" charging, in 2025.)

Seen plenty of EVs in rural driveways, even today. They have electricity, too ...
Don't put words in my mouth, of course there's electricity in the rural areas, there's even internet!

There's also no evidence to support your claim that the battery will last the life of the vehicle. I do have a colleague who have to keep McGyvering his Prius's battery, and that car is newer than all of mine except the one I just bought. I do know the batteries on my phones, tablets, and laptops have all conked out before the devices themselves did.

Congrats on owning your EV for a whole year, I guess nothing will happen after that. Cheapest new EV is still 2x + the cost of the cheapest new ICE car, I know it's a forum for rich old ballerz, but not everyone can ball like that.
 
Exaggerate much? Your massive hyperbole does not help your argument, it only twigged me to do a google search. Average cost for a an EV in Canada is 73K so about half cost less. Average battery life 15-20 years.
And you're not exaggerating? I use $100k as a nice round number, and most EVs people buy are in the range. I'd like you to cite your sources for the mythical 20 year EV battery, as most EVs haven't even been around that long. And 20 years of constant use? Sure, I've got excellent triangular structured investment opportunities I want to introduce you to also.
 

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