Fantasy licensing thread

[LePhillou]

I don't know if it'll stay in this sub-forum...it's kinda meant as a rant/catharsis thread for all of you

On countless threads, we see tons of people "unable to drive properly" by the standards of the GTAM community..or by the standards of common logic

If you guys were to be in charge of setting the rules for driver licensing, what would you require the drivers Ontario (or more specifically the GTA) to go through in order to acquire a full:
a) drivers license
b) moto license

 

[Scuba Steve]

Retest every 10yrs mandatory drivers re education if you fail twice. Testing would also have to be done at one of the 3 closest test centers to your home address.
Bikes would tested for panic stops and obstacle avoidance from 100kmph and have to complete the stop in control in the required distance.

sent from a device using a program

 

[GreyGhost]

Retest every 10yrs mandatory drivers re education if you fail twice. Testing would also have to be done at one of the 3 closest test centers to your home address.
Bikes would tested for panic stops and obstacle avoidance from 100kmph and have to complete the stop in control in the required distance.

sent from a device using a program

I like your ideas.

The most critical thing that is missing from the current system is testing under pressure. Obviously this is probably best done in a simulator in case you screw up. I am talking about having animals/kids/vehicles enter your space and force you to make a decision (brake/swerve/run the mofo over). Obviously there would be representative obstacles/traffic present in the simulation. Young drivers tries to do this and motorcycle safety courses try to do this (the swerve drill where the instructor waits until you are damn close before telling you which way to go).

Many people appear to be marginally competent until you put them under pressure, then they step on the gas and crash through a store front, then put it into reverse and crash through another. I am quite sure most elderly drivers are not able to react appropriately under pressure (and therefore are a danger, it doesn't matter that many only drive during the daytime in good weather, if they don't do the right thing when a kid runs onto the road it's game over).

A monkey can drive in the right lane of the 401 at 100 km/h and not crash, what separates us is the ability to make informed decisions quickly.

 

[trebororr]

There are programs currently in Ontario that are supposed to deal with bad drivers; unfortunately the Ministry of Transportation is not interested in dealing with the problem. The Collision Repeater Program is supposed to have individuals that are involved in 3 or more collisions in any 2 year period(2 or more at fault) be re-tested. People don't report collisions rather deal with them themselves and even when they do report the Police Services don't lay charges. This makes it difficult for MTO to have the relevant information for the Collision Repeater Program; even when a person is flagged there aren't enough Driver Improvement Councillors to meet with them and order them to attend a driving test.

 

[nobbie48]

I like your ideas.

A monkey can drive in the right lane of the 401 at 100 km/h and not crash,.

Send that to John Tory. He's looking at ways to improve traffic flow and this is a good one. Monkeys with GPS's could also drive cabs better.

We need a road test like a closed circuit rally with a skid pad, turns and a few pop up surprises. A time bracket so no dawdling or speeding. The examiner isn't in the car but watches on CCTV. You said fantasy.

 

[trebororr]

Send that to John Tory. He's looking at ways to improve traffic flow and this is a good one. Monkeys with GPS's could also drive cabs better.

We need a road test like a closed circuit rally with a skid pad, turns and a few pop up surprises. A time bracket so no dawdling or speeding. The examiner isn't in the car but watches on CCTV. You said fantasy.

Years ago in Brampton there was the John Rhodes Center which was a Ministry of Transportation Driver Examination Center which was on private (government) property. It didn't have your skid pad but had had so many possible traffic scenarios which resulted in that particular center having a much higher fail rate then any other test center in the GTA or Ontario. Drivetest moved as MTO was charging them very high cost for rental.

 

[Baggsy]

I'm not sure how well any of them would work.

Some of the people slept through the classroom portion of the motorcycle course that I took,
and they all claimed to be much better drivers than those naughty cagers that we all hear about.

For the testing, what's to stop someone from driving like an ---, except for the tests?

 

[trebororr]

I'm not sure how well any of them would work.

Some of the people slept through the classroom portion of the motorcycle course that I took,
and they all claimed to be much better drivers than those naughty cagers that we all hear about.

For the testing, what's to stop someone from driving like an ---, except for the tests?

Police and Courts need to wake up and do their jobs.

 

[Baggsy]

I'm not sure how well any of them would work.

Some of the people slept through the classroom portion of the motorcycle course that I took,
and they all claimed to be much better drivers than those naughty cagers that we all hear about.

For the testing, what's to stop someone from driving like an ---, except for the tests?

Police and Courts need to wake up and do their jobs.

Vehicle drivers need to wake up and do theirs.
The police and courts aren't people's personal chauffeurs.

The stupid thing is that there doesn't seem to be much of a market for training, AFTER one's received a license. I was looking for a Winter driving course, and found that I'd have to travel to the far ends of the GTA. I don't really feel like driving 3-4 hours, driving all day, and then driving back.

 

[DJM]

No "All of the Above" option...

 

[Rob MacLennan]

My take:

- Current testing standards
- Financial incentives for taking an registered advanced course, enforced at the government level
- Mandatory driver re-education for 4 point and above infractions
- Actual enforcement of LAWS THAT AREN'T JUST ABOUT SPEED

 

[Renboy]

Unless handicapped, road test done with manual transmission cars.

 

[GreyGhost]

Unless handicapped, road test done with manual transmission cars.

It's getting hard to buy a car with a manual transmission these days. In 10 years they may be gone.

 

[Baggsy]

My take:

- Current testing standards
- Financial incentives for taking an registered advanced course, enforced at the government level
- Mandatory driver re-education for 4 point and above infractions
- Actual enforcement of LAWS THAT AREN'T JUST ABOUT SPEED

Are there any verifiable stats to confirm this contention?

Should they just enforce slam dunk items, like waiting at the seventh stop sign on the route through Post Rd?

When I was a kid, I got dinged for left turns at Morningside and Ellesmere three times, in about two years. But I saw a lot more radar traps around than I do now, as well. I'm lucky to see a Police car once a week now.

The thing about speed is that "speed exacerbates".
With most everyone speeding, a close call can turn into a fatality.

Parking tickets would seem to generate the most revenue.

Edit: my searches keep turning up hundreds of ticket fighting sites rather than any solid stats. Lots of people seem to be living off of people being charged for traffic violations. Anyway here's a quote from a 2011 Maclean's article:
"In Toronto last year, city police issued 700,721 traffic tickets, a 48 per cent increase from five years earlier. That amounts to some $60 million in fine revenue flowing through Toronto’s court service, of which the city gets the lion’s share. Yes, perhaps, every traffic stop makes the streets a little safer. Still, one wonders if the 94 per cent increase in stop sign violations means Toronto attitudes toward this most basic of traffic signs have degenerated these past five years, or if police have a greater incentive to enforce."
http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/too-many-cops/

Somewhere else I had seen that the 2014 number of traffic charges were down from the previous year, by about 1/3, but were expected to rise again in 2015.
http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/1...t-revenue-down-by-30m-finger-pointing-starts/

 

[Rob MacLennan]

Are there any verifiable stats to confirm this contention?

Should they just enforce slam dunk items, like waiting at the seventh stop sign on the route through Post Rd?

When I was a kid, I got dinged for left turns at Morningside and Ellesmere three times, in about two years. But I saw a lot more radar traps around than I do now, as well. I'm lucky to see a Police car once a week now.

The thing about speed is that "speed exacerbates".
With most everyone speeding, a close call can turn into a fatality.

Parking tickets would seem to generate the most revenue.

Only what I see every day; police ignoring drivers who run cold amber lights and failure to signal their intentions, for example.

 

[LePhillou]

People with DUI have to have a device in their car and/or go to meetings.

People who can't drive get away with points and and fines but nothing to really fix the issue.

I heard someone mention a Collision Repeater Program. Never heard of it until today, how sloppily is it enforced that people don't know about it

 

[mroberto]

What are things like in Europe? I've never been but I generally assume that European drivers are better than North American drivers. They have much narrower roads and are able to navigate them without problems.

I see people in Brampton (because that's where I live) who have no idea where the edges of their vehicle are. On a two lane road that is easily four cars wide to account for parked cars, people will drive in the oncoming traffic lane to go around a parked vehicle. And if an oncoming car is coming towards them, they do one of two things: a) ignore the oncoming car and drive down the middle of the road, or b) stop and wait for the car to drive by before proceeding down the center of the road. It boggles my mind that people don't know where the side of their vehicle is and they'd rather drive head on into another motorist than get a few feet closer to the parked car or curb.

And don't get me started about people making u-turns on a red light, not stopping at 4-way stop signs, failing to signal their intentions and being the fourth car making that left turn after the light has turned red.

 

[Sativa Quemador]

My take:

- Current testing standards
- Financial incentives for taking an registered advanced course, enforced at the government level
- Mandatory driver re-education for 4 point and above infractions
- Actual enforcement of LAWS THAT AREN'T JUST ABOUT SPEED

the question was..If you guys were to be in charge of setting the rules for driver licensing, what would you require the drivers Ontario (or more specifically the GTA) to go through in order to acquire a full:
a) drivers license
b) moto license

Rob, your ideas are good, but dont help in this matter. Op wants to know what should be done before the gov't allows you to drive.
points 3-4 have nothing to do with obtaining a license.

 

[Sativa Quemador]

I think a simple rule change to make our roads safer would be this....

All testing and anything else can only be done in 1 of our 2 official languages.

if you cant speak, or read fluent English or French, you cant be on our roads.


If people cant read our languages, how can we expect them to read/understand or follow our laws.

and maybe a little IQ test....

 

[Baggsy]

the question was..If you guys were to be in charge of setting the rules for driver licensing, what would you require the drivers Ontario (or more specifically the GTA) to go through in order to acquire a full:
a) drivers license
b) moto license

Rob, your ideas are good, but dont help in this matter. Op wants to know what should be done before the gov't allows you to drive.
points 3-4 have nothing to do with obtaining a license.

The only thing that can really be done in that case, is to try and standardize the test more between the different Centres, and weed out any testers who are accepting bribes for licenses.

But then, what do you do in the case of people who are handicapped or don't speak the languages?

People need to take more responsibility for themselves rather than relying on the Government to fix it.
The situation is that we are ALL part of the problem, but won't accept that fact.

Edit: With regard to what Rob said. If you take "getting your license" as an ongoing process over your lifetime, than what he said, can fit within that context.