Failure to produce ownership/insurance...what do you guys think? | GTAMotorcycle.com

Failure to produce ownership/insurance...what do you guys think?

T

torontoZX6R

Well-known member
So I got pulled over tonight in what I can only describe as total Harrasment. I was riding in a group downtown and was the last rider. We were all riding responsibly and well within the speed limit. The cop pulls me over and tells me it's because my license plate "is not perfectly straight"

Now I know that my license plate is beyond legal. It is not tucked up under my tail, it is fully lit up, and has a SLIGHT upwards bend from the factory. Which actually makes it MORE visible from a cruiser.

I tell the officer the relevant HTA codes and explain that my plate is fully legal, and so I didn't get a ticket for it.

However, like an idiot, I didn't have my ownership and insurance under my seat for this ride. I know, I should know better. So I got two tickets for failure to produce ownership and Insurance

My question is, I will set up a meeting with the prosecutor, what do you guys think the chances are of this getting dropped? Does anyone have experience with something like this? Do they usually drop the charges once the documents are produced?

Thnx guys

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If you have legitimate paperwork, they will get thrown out. Jus a waste of everyone's time.
 
"I tell the officer the relevant HTA codes and explain that my plate is fully legal..."
This is why you got your ticket ;)
I don't know you so I apologize for generalizing BUT...
Did you ever notice, it is always the same story..."so I ask the officer WHY this...and I TELL HIM...
Have your ***** ready, and listen before you "tell him" anything ;)
Ask any cop and they will tell you, they know within the first 30 seconds if you are getting the ticket OR just a talking to.
Just my $.02 speaking from experience, and listening to hundreds of the same stories that started with someone questioning or opposing the officer. YES IT IS YOUR RIGHT...BUT do you want the ticket, or a better story how you avoided one...
Safe riding this season all!
Cheers Sadz.

PS I agree with Mina, shouldn't be an issue to take it in to clear it. Just costs your time.
 
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Sadz said:
"I tell the officer the relevant HTA codes and explain that my plate is fully legal..."
This is why you got your ticket ;)
I don't know you so I apologize for generalizing BUT...
Did you ever notice, it is always the same story..."so I ask the officer WHY this...and I TELL HIM...
Have your ***** ready, and listen before you "tell him" anything ;)
Ask any cop and they will tell you, they know within the first 30 seconds if you are getting the ticket OR just a talking to.
Just my $.02 speaking from experience, and listening to hundreds of the same stories that started with someone questioning or opposing the officer. YES IT IS YOUR RIGHT...BUT do you want the ticket, or a better story how you avoided one...
Safe riding this season all!
Cheers Sadz.

PS I agree with Mina, shouldn't be an issue to take it in to clear it. Just costs your time.
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Maybe in my post-ticket frustration it didn't come across on my post just how respectful, patient and non-argumentative I was with this officer. However, I certainly wasn't gonna sit silently as he tells me that my clearly legal plate is illegal. I would like to see how you react when an officer pulls something like that on you.

This isn't my first rodeo, I know how to deal with cops. But I had to stand up for my rights in this case. I fully owned up to my insurance/registration and straight up told him that I should know better.

I have mad mad respect for cops for the most part, but this one just left a bad taste in my mouth. Saw a group of bikes early season and he just went hunting. Plain and simple.

And thnx for your kind advice, but I believe I got the ticket because not producing your registration is illegal, and not because I politely spoke to the officer.
 
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Maybe not so easy. Sounds like it's HTA 7(5) and CAI 3(1). Not that the bike is registered and insured, but that you did not produce the registration (or a true copy thereof) or produce the insurance slip when requested.

Hopefully others will chime-in here, but a guilty plea on the CAI 3(1) in exchange for dropping the HTA 7(5) may work out. You'd pay the fine of course, but the CAI violation _may_ not show on your transcript and/or impact insurance rates. Not sure about this...


HTA = Highway Traffic Act
CAI = Compulsory Automobile Insurance Act
 
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With a failure to produce, it's up to the crowns discretion. If you can show your documents, they may dismiss the charges. They are in no way bound to do so though. Good luck.

Sent from my Le Pan TC802A using Tapatalk
 
Respectful or not, you did not have the proper paperwork, so you got a ticket. The police enforce the law. A lack of insurance proof ticket has happened to me before. Go to court, provide the proof, you get off your ticket. It takes 2 minutes before the judge, but is a complete waste of your day. Save some time and ride with the proper paperwork.
 
I've heard of circumstances where you get 12 hours to bring in the paperwork. Not sure if is folklore or not. As others have said, I would try bringing in relevant paperwork asap.

Sent from my custom purple Joe Bass mobile device using Tapatalk
 
I got a ticket for failure to produce insurance before in my car because I didn't realize I was still carrying the expired slip. The cop gave me the ticket but told me if I bring the current one when I see the prosecutor that the ticket would be dropped. Wasted my time having to go to the court but was dropped as he said.
 
I got a ticket once for failure to carry proof of insurance. I'm pretty sure it is a real law.
I think the cop was just being spiteful because you argued about the license plate. Hope you didn't tell him that the plate was straight but his head was on crooked; that never works.
You could hire a paralegal to help you fight the charge, and you might even win if the cop doesn't show up at court, but it's gotta be cheaper to just pay it off.
 
Blackfin said:
Why tie up the courts for this?

You ****ed up. Just pay the tickets and carry your paperwork next time.
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Personally i always have it on me (the papers) but it did happen one year that i got the sticker for my cage's license plate, aka i PAID for it, and my ownership reflected that it was paid and up to date, but i still got a ticket. (Probably 2 days after it expired).
Usually i clean my car (and the plate) before i put the sticker on so i forgot that one time as i hadn't gotten around cleaning the car yet.

Got a ticket for invalid/expired sticker, fought it and it got thrown out right away as soon as i showed her THE SAME PAPERS i'd shown the officer (not even the plate sticker).
Some people don't wanna pay 110$ if they've actually done 98% of the footwork to be legal as not everyone has a disposable $110 to add randomly to the monthly budget ;)
My car is legal, i've paid the fee to have a valid plate and you can see it in the system with your scanner if i haven't paid as it comes up and flashes (as per what some cops have indicated to me)

If you're not getting your one time forgiveness from them, the court system allows you to get it yourself :)
 
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You're supposed to have insurance & ownership at all times. The plates were an excuse to pull you over. They need an excuse to pull you over or else its harassment.

However, I would go to court to see if I get lucky
 
torontoZX6R said:
I got slapped with two minor tickets over an honest mistake, during an illegal stop, and you want me to just roll over and die because I might take up 5 minutes of court time??? But the fact that the cop thought it a priority to pull over a motorcyclist going 40km/hr for no reason and spend an hour with me, when he could have rather been protecting our city on a rowdy Thursday night downtown. That doesn't bother you?Thnx for chiming in there bud. Next time you get a ticket I expect you to be a good little boy and just pay up
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Illegal stop? Why? You do know that you can be stopped for simple operator license and vehicle documentation checks, right? And you do know that lack of insurance among certain kinds of motorcycle riders is far more common than for other classes of vehicles, right? That's why.
 
They don't need an excuse to pull you over. A stop to check your papers is their right. We have all voted for this.

But here's the thing - you were in violation of HTA and CAI. Any complaints about why you were stopped are now invalid.

Copper made his quota. He's on traffic duty, not detective work. Probably not a rider. If you request a trial and call him as witness it will either make an easy day for him or may even result in overtime.

I've seen a youtube video of a gta SuMo rider being let-off a HTA172 charge after being caught for wheelieing during a group ride. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
 
FLSTC said:
They don't need an excuse to pull you over. A stop to check your papers is their right. We have all voted for this.
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This is such nonsense IMO.

Yes a ownership/insurance check is legal grounds for a traffic stop. But for any other traffic stop, the cop needs to observe an infraction or believe that you're involved in some sort of criminal act. So why is it that the cop doesn't require some kind of "proof" that your papers will not be in order? It's one thing if they run your plate and something comes up, but if the plate check comes back clean, why is it that they're still allowed to pull drivers over for a paperwork check?
 
sevet said:
This is such nonsense IMO.

Yes a ownership/insurance check is legal grounds for a traffic stop. But for any other traffic stop, the cop needs to observe an infraction or believe that you're involved in some sort of criminal act. So why is it that the cop doesn't require some kind of "proof" that your papers will not be in order? It's one thing if they run your plate and something comes up, but if the plate check comes back clean, why is it that they're still allowed to pull drivers over for a paperwork check?
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This comes from the Canadian Criminal Trial Lawyers Association. http://www.criminaltriallawyers.ca/?q=know-your-rights

"Firstly, the law recognizes that there are a few issues that the police should legally be able to investigate in almost all driving situations. These issues include: whether or not the driver of the vehicle is licensed to drive; whether or not the motor vehicle is properly insured and registered; and whether or not the vehicle is in good working order. Unlike other situations, the police do not need grounds to believe that your licence, insurance or registration documents are not up to date in order to pull you over to investigate these issues. The rationale for this is that driving is not a right, but a privilege, and the power for a stop of this kind comes from the Highway Traffic Act."
 
FLSTC said:
They don't need an excuse to pull you over. A stop to check your papers is their right. We have all voted for this.
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Ok I can get pulled over for no reason/probable cause whatsoever. I truly did not know this. I thought that was unconstitutional.

My problem then is why not be honest and upfront, if he has the right, then just say "I pulled you over for an insurance check sir" and not make up some bogus claim. Because if he did hit me with that ******** license plate charge, I would be paying through the nose to fight that in court, and then good luck proving it.
 
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