Ethanol free gas

[bitzz]

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I think you will find that all grades (87,89,91) of "gasoline" in the Ontario general market do contain....

Here's links to the Toronto petroleum wholesaler's product lists

Petro-Canada Rack Price - Terminal Rack Prices

If you're interested in our Petro-Canada rack price, here are Suncor Energy's latest terminal rack prices for resellers and wholesale customers. Our rack pricing includes Intra-day, daily, weekly average and twice-weekly average rack prices.

www.petro-canada.ca

Terminal Rack Prices

Shell Canada's terminal rack prices

www.shell.ca

If stations are selling premium with ethanol, I would like to know where they're getting it. Petrocan does have a mid-range with 5%, everyone else mixes it at the pump.

 

[AFJ]

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[mixedup]

Extinction?... by 11% ethanol?
Are you serious? Do you actually believe the BS you're posting?

ANY, as in EVERY, vehicle made for the North American market, since the '90s will run on E15 without issue. (It's been a legal requirement since, IIRC, 1996) RTFM.
Any vehicle from before that can be made to run on E15 without issue.

... and ethanol is an oxidizing agent. When you remove the ethanol from modern gas, you're pulling oxygen from the burn... and losing power.
You want ethanol free fuel for your lawn mower/snowblower?: buy premium fuel from ANY gas station. No ethanol in premium. Reduced levels in mid-grade as mid-grade is a mix of premium (0% ethanol) and regular (10% ethanol) ... so mid-grade has 5% ethanol.

I think you need to read the website and the required increases through to 2030.

There is NO ethanol free gas available at the pumps in Ontario now.

 

[mixedup]

The problems with Norton tanks pre-dates ethanol fuels. Those tanks were/are a bad idea from the word GO.
That being said: I used to race a Gus Kuhn and we were sponsored by Pro Race Fuels (the world leader in un-leaded race fuels) and we poured all kinds of different fairy piss race fuels into that stock Norton tank and never had a problem with it.
IIRC the melting Ducati tanks was a oxidizer issue... it was a Ducati problem, not a fuel problem.
I can't speak for every modern setup, but they all have knock sensors now, and the Mopar setup cranks the timing till it knocks, then backs off a couple, in their E85 setup.

... don't racers use methanol, NOT ethanol?

Also….the Ducati issue was not a “melting” tank issue. It was an expanding tank issue that was, in fact, due to ethanol.

So before you get angry, please do some reading.

 

[bitzz]

There is NO ethanol free gas available at the pumps in Ontario now.

OK.
But if you look at the links to the rack pricing I keep posting when this comes up, no one wholesales premium fuel with ethanol in it in Ontario. If the fuel at the pump has ethanol in it, it must have come from outside Ontario... and that's not how it works.
There is no premium fuel with ethanol in it available in Ontario.

 

[mixedup]

OK.
But if you look at the links to the rack pricing I keep posting when this comes up, no one wholesales premium fuel with ethanol in it in Ontario. If the fuel at the pump has ethanol in it, it must have come from outside Ontario... and that's not how it works.
There is no premium fuel with ethanol in it available in Ontario.

OK. Tell me where to get it and I’ll give them a call to confirm.

Before:


After (same pump/station):

 

[mixedup]

From the interwebz (Google is great!):

 

[bitzz]

Also….the Ducati issue was not a “melting” tank issue.

This one is simple.
IF it was a "fuel" problem and not a Ducati problem, why did Ducati warranty those tanks?
When Shell screwed up the premium that was spec fuel that ate the nicosil off the BMW liners (the W10 IIRC) because there was too much sulphur, Shell picked up the tab. BIG TAB
Ducati made a tank that didn't do well with the fuel that was spec.
It was a Ducati problem, not a fuel problem.
And no the tanks didn't MELT, they just lost rigidity. If you left it in the sun the tank would blow up like a balloon. If you left it in a cool dark place, they sagged. SORRY, I said melted.
I still think it was an oxidizer though... ethanol is an oxidizer... but you knew that, RIGHT? but I remember it being a different oxidizer. That was back in the days they had recently banned MTBE and they were playing with different oxidizers... and I looked into it because I think it's funny when Ducati makes stupid mistakes. Ducati made a Norton Commando plastic tank in the 2000s and I think that's funny.

 

[mixedup]

Oh my….Google is your friend. As a long time owner of many Ducatis, I know exactly what the issue was.

I’m not going to argue with you. Enjoy your ethanol free gas when you find it.

 

[bakaboy]

There is still ethanol free 91 around....

 

[Mad Mike]

Head to the link earlier in the thread on the Ontario website. Ethanol free gas is gone, regardless of grade.

I think you should read the stateme in the link more carefully. Revisit the part heading Deductions.

"Volumes of mid- and premium-grade gasoline (gasolines with octane levels of 89 or higher) can also be deducted"

This means they deduct thst volume of gasoline from their blending obligations. How they do that is up to them. My guess gas companies could offer meth free, but the profits drive higher when mixing ethanol with your highest price/cost product.

Screams from shareholders are louder than from motorcyclists.

 

[Mad Mike]

I think you need to read the website and the required increases through to 2030.

There is NO ethanol free gas available at the pumps in Ontario now.

There are places where you can drive up to the gas dock and pump 0 ethanol marine gas into your metho-phobic tank.

The Pioneer on Leslie in Keswick comes to mind.

 

[mixedup]

I think you should read the stateme in the link more carefully. Revisit the part heading Deductions.

"Volumes of mid- and premium-grade gasoline (gasolines with octane levels of 89 or higher) can also be deducted"

This means they deduct thst volume of gasoline from their blending obligations. How they do that is up to them. My guess gas companies could offer meth free, but the profits drive higher when mixing ethanol with your highest price/cost product.

Screams from shareholders are louder than from motorcyclists.

That’s what She’ll used to do. My guess is when the 11% and up recommendation happens, they might do so again. Who knows. Fingers crossed. But if anyone knows of a gas station in Toronto that has ethanol free gas, I’ll happily call and/or make the trip over with a testing kit to verify

There was an earlier thread on this very topic (only a couple months back actually) where others had come to the same conclusion.

 

[bitzz]

That’s what She’ll used to do. My guess is when the 11% and up recommendation happens, they might do so again. Who knows.

USED to do.
They were legislated into 10% AVERAGE ethanol content. Since 99.9% of gas sold is regular, they put 10.01% ethanol in regular gas and all is good.
... then the ethno-phobes started buying premium, cuz you know: ethanol makes my car melt, and by doing so they skewed the average enough it was noticed, so now they legislate 10% ethanol content in ALL grades of fuel.
Seems to me, that would make you your own worst enemy... HUH?
We could have made it to 2028 at 13% AVERAGE, by going to E15 regular (which all vehicles made for the north american market will have no issue with) and still have no ethanol premium, BUT NO....

... and for your "As a long time owner of many Ducatis, I know exactly what the issue was." dick swingin', I'll play along. I bought my first Ducati in 1976 or 77, and have owned at least one since. I have 4 presently.
Does that make me some sort of expert? Nope
A long time idiot? MAYBE.

 

[Mad Mike]

USED to do.
They were legislated into 10% AVERAGE ethanol content. Since 99.9% of gas sold is regular, they put 10.01% ethanol in regular gas and all is good.
... then the ethno-phobes started buying premium, cuz you know: ethanol makes my car melt, and by doing so they skewed the average enough it was noticed, so now they legislate 10% ethanol content in ALL grades of fuel.
Seems to me, that would make you your own worst enemy... HUH?
We could have made it to 2028 at 13% AVERAGE, by going to E15 regular (which all vehicles made for the north american market will have no issue with) and still have no ethanol premium, BUT NO....

... and for your "As a long time owner of many Ducatis, I know exactly what the issue was." dick swingin', I'll play along. I bought my first Ducati in 1976 or 77, and have owned at least one since. I have 4 presently.
Does that make me some sort of expert? Nope
A long time idiot? MAYBE.

I still don't thing gas products are required yo blend Netherlands into all grades. They are permitted to deduct grades over 89 octane from their blend ratio, so math says they can achieve their blend ratios without touching premium grades.

 

[mixedup]

USED to do.
They were legislated into 10% AVERAGE ethanol content. Since 99.9% of gas sold is regular, they put 10.01% ethanol in regular gas and all is good.
... then the ethno-phobes started buying premium, cuz you know: ethanol makes my car melt, and by doing so they skewed the average enough it was noticed, so now they legislate 10% ethanol content in ALL grades of fuel.
Seems to me, that would make you your own worst enemy... HUH?
We could have made it to 2028 at 13% AVERAGE, by going to E15 regular (which all vehicles made for the north american market will have no issue with) and still have no ethanol premium, BUT NO....

... and for your "As a long time owner of many Ducatis, I know exactly what the issue was." dick swingin', I'll play along. I bought my first Ducati in 1976 or 77, and have owned at least one since. I have 4 presently.
Does that make me some sort of expert? Nope
A long time idiot? MAYBE.

Then you must know all about the “melting” gas tanks!

 

[Wingboy]

Then you must know all about the “melting” gas tanks!

"Melting" gas tanks. Lol. I had an 09 hyper. No issues whatsoever. I know a lot of folks in the Ducati world, and we were all aware of the deformed thank issues.I don't know anyone that had one.
But.... Everyone read about it on the internet. Lol.

 

[mixedup]

"Melting" gas tanks. Lol. I had an 09 hyper. No issues whatsoever. I know a lot of folks in the Ducati world, and we were all aware of the deformed thank issues.I don't know anyone that had one.
But.... Everyone read about it on the internet. Lol.

My brother had the issue. So there’s that. He became so paranoid of ethanol the he actually uses a test kit!

 

[mixedup]

"Melting" gas tanks. Lol. I had an 09 hyper. No issues whatsoever. I know a lot of folks in the Ducati world, and we were all aware of the deformed thank issues.I don't know anyone that had one.
But.... Everyone read about it on the internet. Lol.

Here you go…some additional info from a class action attempt for you:

Ducati Fuel Tank Class Action Lawsuit | Motorcycle Defect Class Action Lawsuit

In November 2010, Gibbs Law Group LLP filed a national class action lawsuit alleging that the plastic fuel tanks on certain Ducati motorcycles are defective because they degrade and deform due to an…

www.classlawgroup.com

Motorcycle Manufacturer Gets Sued Because of Ethanol Gas

Ethanol and motorcycles don't mix when untreated ethanol gas deforms and degrades motorcycle fuel tanks.

www.bellperformance.com

 

[cycling]

My brother had the issue. So there’s that. He became so paranoid of ethanol the he actually uses a test kit!

What is the test kit? Please and thanks.

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