Enough of COVID...what are you doing to the house? | Page 426 | GTAMotorcycle.com

Enough of COVID...what are you doing to the house?

Pics or it didn’t happen!
Would have taken one and sent it to you but I didn't finish until 6:30pm and was working by shop light at that point so pics weren't really an option. Plus the bricks took enough of my fingerprints away temporarily that my phone wasn't reading my fingerprint to unlock it.
 
Looking for some input from the GTAM reno brain-trust.

I posted up my "loft" renovation a couple of pages back. My question is regarding "strapping" out the rafters to insulate.

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The rafters are 2X4 (measured 3.5" deep), 16 inch spacing and while it would be considered undersized by today's standards they have been doing the job since 1941.... I want to add R24 Rockwool so I need to strap them out to fit the 5.5 inch insulation plus the air gap above it (so min 6.5 inches). Adding some strength would still be a bonus...

My first thought was to add a second 2X4 glued and screwed edge to edge making a "virtual" 2X8. The issue is as expected 82 years on the existing 2X4s look straightish to the eye but they are bowed down and adding a 2X4 like this will add a lot of stress.

My next thought is to either buy 2X2s or to rip 2X4s down and stack them to achieve the above but it should be more forgiving and better conform to the existing rafters. I end up with the existing 2X4 and two layers of 2X2s.
 
Looking for some input from the GTAM reno brain-trust.

I posted up my "loft" renovation a couple of pages back. My question is regarding "strapping" out the rafters to insulate.

View attachment 64461

The rafters are 2X4 (measured 3.5" deep), 16 inch spacing and while it would be considered undersized by today's standards they have been doing the job since 1941.... I want to add R24 Rockwool so I need to strap them out to fit the 5.5 inch insulation plus the air gap above it (so min 6.5 inches). Adding some strength would still be a bonus...

My first thought was to add a second 2X4 glued and screwed edge to edge making a "virtual" 2X8. The issue is as expected 82 years on the existing 2X4s look straightish to the eye but they are bowed down and adding a 2X4 like this will add a lot of stress.

My next thought is to either buy 2X2s or to rip 2X4s down and stack them to achieve the above but it should be more forgiving and better conform to the existing rafters. I end up with the existing 2X4 and two layers of 2X2s.
You're not going to like it but I would sister 2x8's to the existing. That gives you a flat plane for your ceiling and stops any more sagging. I don't think you'll be happy with a curved and wobbly ceiling if the board follows the existing shape. Alternatively, sistered 2x6 with perpendicular furring channels may be cheaper for materials. You don't need 2x8 for strength that was just to make you space.
 
Once you have removed any air space , are you not concerned about cooking the roof ? I would be
I’d look at a ridge vent , plastic air trough up the space between rafters and then build out with plywood gussets so you can fit insulation . T shaped gussets would let you screw them to rafters sides matching the ‘curve’ of 60 yr old 2x and them cross strap with 1x2 to hold Insulation in place . More work then your looking for .


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Once you have removed any air space , are you not concerned about cooking the roof ? I would be
I’d look at a ridge vent , plastic air trough up the space between rafters and then build out with plywood gussets so you can fit insulation . T shaped gussets would let you screw them to rafters sides matching the ‘curve’ of 60 yr old 2x and them cross strap with 1x2 to hold Insulation in place . More work then your looking for .


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I think his plan is small air gap above insulation. With batts, I probably wouldn't bother with an actual baffle. You know the bottom of your buildup is at x" so if the insulation is flush with the bottom, you have some room above. The insulation should never move if it was the right width for the cavities.

Not sure what his roof venting looks like. There is obviously one there and if he could make the loft have a flat ceiling below that level, it could work. The vent is lower than i'd like but not awful. Cutting in a ridge vent will be a lot of work and may be expensive if he has architectural shingles. Ridge shingles add up quickly.
 
@GreyGhost I thought about 2X8s but it will decrease my spacing between the rafters and it will be a little more expensive and there will be some added weight for something that may not be 100% structural. I can always cut the insulation for the spacing.

@I will put baffles in the space before the insulation. The house is double brick so there are no soffit vents (other than air leaks, bricks goes to the roof deck between the rafters) but I will still add some venting from the bottom. Ridge vent can come in the future but for now it will just be the current roof vents.
 
@GreyGhost I thought about 2X8s but it will decrease my spacing between the rafters and it will be a little more expensive and there will be some added weight for something that may not be 100% structural. I can always cut the insulation for the spacing.

@I will put baffles in the space before the insulation. The house is double brick so there are no soffit vents (other than air leaks, bricks goes to the roof deck between the rafters) but I will still add some venting from the bottom. Ridge vent can come in the future but for now it will just be the current roof vents.
Current roof vent will only vent one stud cavity if you take the cathedral to the ridge. I don't think the roof will like that.

If you really want to build up the existing, I would shim as required to flatten the plane. I think board following the old lumber will look like a hot mess.
 
I think his plan is small air gap above insulation. With batts, I probably wouldn't bother with an actual baffle. You know the bottom of your buildup is at x" so if the insulation is flush with the bottom, you have some room above. The insulation should never move if it was the right width for the cavities.

Not sure what his roof venting looks like. There is obviously one there and if he could make the loft have a flat ceiling below that level, it could work. The vent is lower than i'd like but not awful. Cutting in a ridge vent will be a lot of work and may be expensive if he has architectural shingles. Ridge shingles add up quickly.
Yes, there is a vent and the upper space is open across the entire house to the other vents. The rest of the house is built the same way and the upper floor is a "half" story with a kneewall a flat ceiling with airspace above it and the sloped roof down to the kneewall. There is no air gap on the sloped roof part, the blown in insulation fills the roof cavity between the ceiling and kneewall space.

Right now the roof just has mid ties every other rafter. The plan is to add both collar ties at the vent height which will give a flat ceiling in the middle and rafter ties at the bottom.
 
Looking for some input from the GTAM reno brain-trust.

I posted up my "loft" renovation a couple of pages back. My question is regarding "strapping" out the rafters to insulate.

View attachment 64461

The rafters are 2X4 (measured 3.5" deep), 16 inch spacing and while it would be considered undersized by today's standards they have been doing the job since 1941.... I want to add R24 Rockwool so I need to strap them out to fit the 5.5 inch insulation plus the air gap above it (so min 6.5 inches). Adding some strength would still be a bonus...

My first thought was to add a second 2X4 glued and screwed edge to edge making a "virtual" 2X8. The issue is as expected 82 years on the existing 2X4s look straightish to the eye but they are bowed down and adding a 2X4 like this will add a lot of stress.

My next thought is to either buy 2X2s or to rip 2X4s down and stack them to achieve the above but it should be more forgiving and better conform to the existing rafters. I end up with the existing 2X4 and two layers of 2X2s.
You have a couple of options, but before insulating I would evaluate the roof. 2x4 rafters are OK, I have redone a handful of houses with them. few things I always do:

Easy and quick:

Rip 1/4" OSB strips 7.5 to 8" wide, nail them to the same side of the each rafter. This gives you a 16" cavity with 2.5" air gap and 5.5" for your R20 batts. It will also add a bit of rigidity and 1/4" is thick enough to take staples for your vapor barrier.

Upside - quick, easy and cheap. Down side is you can't panel or drywall.

Better:

1) Level the ridge, straighten any bowed rafters. 2x4s rafters tend to bow more in the center if the structure. This can happen if the walls are slightly tilting out ad from additional snow loads that happen in the middle of a roof. I'd bet you're an a little lower in the middle than at the gable ends. If the walls are tilting outward, pull them back in place using a heavy ratchet strap in the middle of the building. This will level the ridge somewhat.

If the centermost rafters are bowed, you can 'bend' the rafter back by loosening it's collar tie then wedging a jackpost post between the floor and the midpoint of the rafter (don't jack the ridge boad). Tap the 2x4 wedge at the bottom until it pushes the bow out of the rafter. While under tension, reattatch collar tie.

I always reinforce 2x4 rafters with ply or OSB triangles that run 2' down from the ridge board. This also gives horizontal edge with a little space above so you can install gable or ridge vents (I prefer gable vents in old buildings as you don't need to walk the roof -- might be tough for you with blocked gables).

Add collar ties to each rafter, it looks like you're every second -- the untied rafters will sag more than the tied rafters.

Best:

Add full width collar ties to every set of rafters, then blow in or lay bats flay in the 'attic' space. You can use your existing vents, you just need a handful of styrofoam baffles to get air from the soffit to the ridge. If you want to panel the ceiling, tie the collars to the rafters 3' back from the walls with 2x4, ply or OSB triangles.

Want the Cathedral look? Furr out the rafters using 2x6 metal studs screwed to the bottom of the rafters. Then you go the other way with steel battens. You will need batts designed for steel studs, they are a wider to fill the stud cavity. They will only act as spacers, but they are light and easy work -- you can hang T&G or drywall off this.
 
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You have a couple of options, but before insulating I would evaluate the roof. 2x4 rafters are OK, I have redone a handful of houses with them. few things I always do:

Easy and quick:

Rip 1/4" OSB strips 7.5 to 8" wide, nail them to the same side of the each rafter. This gives you a 16" cavity with 2.5" air gap and 5.5" for your R20 batts. It will also add a bit of rigidity and 1/4" is thick enough to take staples for your vapor barrier.

Upside - quick, easy and cheap. Down side is you can't panel or drywall.

Better:

1) Level the ridge, straighten any bowed rafters. 2x4s rafters tend to bow more in the center if the structure. This can happen if the walls are slightly tilting out ad from additional snow loads that happen in the middle of a roof. I'd bet you're an a little lower in the middle than at the gable ends. If the walls are tilting outward, pull them back in place using a heavy ratchet strap in the middle of the building. This will level the ridge somewhat.

If the centermost rafters are bowed, you can 'bend' the rafter back by loosening it's collar tie then wedging a jackpost post between the floor and the midpoint of the rafter (don't jack the ridge boad). Tap the 2x4 wedge at the bottom until it pushes the bow out of the rafter. While under tension, reattatch collar tie.

I always reinforce 2x4 rafters with ply or OSB triangles that run 2' down from the ridge board. This also gives horizontal edge with a little space above so you can install gable or ridge vents (I prefer gable vents in old buildings as you don't need to walk the roof -- might be tough for you with blocked gables).

Add collar ties to each rafter, it looks like you're every second -- the untied rafters will sag more than the tied rafters.

Best:

Add full width collar ties to every set of rafters, then blow in or lay bats flay in the 'attic' space. You can use your existing vents, you just need a handful of styrofoam baffles to get air from the soffit to the ridge. If you want to panel the ceiling, tie the collars to the rafters 3' back from the walls with 2x4, ply or OSB triangles.

Want the Cathedral look? Furr out the rafters using 2x6 metal studs screwed to the bottom of the rafters. Then you go the other way with steel battens. You will need batts designed for steel studs, they are a wider to fill the stud cavity. They will only act as spacers, but they are light and easy work -- you can hang T&G or drywall off this.
Sixteen foot 2X4 rafters were common a hundred years ago and most are still doing the job, even if the roof looks like a ski jump. It's not uncommon to find walls bulging out. A beam can be added and mid supports added, jacked into place, but trying to remove a century of sag in an afternoon will pop things loose.

They don't build them like they used to. whew
 
100 yrs ago many rafters were hardwood, and lots were Douglas fir , which had reasonable strength , and now it’s spruce / pine / fir , and almost never the fir.


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Alright GTAM brain trust…

How do I organize cables through the wall? About 8 CAT6 cables and 1 coaxial cable needs to securely penetrate into the basement…

For some reason phone won’t compress the size of the photo down from 12MB.
 
Alright GTAM brain trust…

How do I organize cables through the wall? About 8 CAT6 cables and 1 coaxial cable needs to securely penetrate into the basement…

For some reason phone won’t compress the size of the photo down from 12MB.
Mine went through the attic floor into the second floor linen closet, down to the built in oven and then into the basement.
They route from one corner of the house to the other in the basement using switches. Every bedroom also has it's own switch.
In the basement the run around the baseboards, and then up through holes I cut in the ceiling/floor.
 
Alright GTAM brain trust…

How do I organize cables through the wall? About 8 CAT6 cables and 1 coaxial cable needs to securely penetrate into the basement…

For some reason phone won’t compress the size of the photo down from 12MB.
Through what kind of wall? What is environment on outside on penetration? Are cables all terminated or bare? Will there be a need in the future to add more wires through this wall? How much room do you have on each side?

In most cases a contractor would put the wires through a hole and call it a day. If they are feeling lile doing better, they will smear some goo on the outside to look like a water stop.

It depends on the answers to the questions but a piece of conduit through the wall with a downturned elbow or a plastic electrical box (form depending on space) with conduit out the back. Use putty as an air seal around penetrations.
 
Mine went through the attic floor into the second floor linen closet, down to the built in oven and then into the basement.
They route from one corner of the house to the other in the basement using switches. Every bedroom also has it's own switch.
In the basement the run around the baseboards, and then up through holes I cut in the ceilings.
Only way I can do it right now is to drill through the block into the laundry room.

Interested to see if there are any penetrations / junction boxes to use and secure the hole.
 

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