Enough of COVID...what are you doing to the house?

[GreyGhost]

At work they said on a ladder you needed to maintain 3 points of contact. I said fine but that rules out carrying anything in one hand. They're response "oh sure you can". Of course it's physically impossible.

Depending on what you are carrying, you can hold a rung and object at the same time. Sure, it is not a perfect grab but often better than nothing. The ladder to the storage loft I built in the garage is vertical and most of the time, I have something in my hands when on the ladder. If you tried legs only, you tip away from the wall.

 

[timtune]

But if you can't hold the object and manage to grab a rung at the same time WITH THAT HAND, no more 3 point contact at all times.

 

[Baggsy]

idk. My toes still curl down when I'm standing on a plank.

The worst is working on a swing stage.
It feels like you're still rocking, while you try to sleep.

 

[daught]

Nice to see 2x4 coming back down....$5/each. What were they before the pandemic surge?

https://www.homedepot.ca/product/2-inch-x-4-inch-x-8-ft-spf-dimensional-lumber/1000112108?rrec=true

It only goes back 2 years but it's a nice website to check stock and historical prices at HD and many other stores

https://stocktrack.ca/hd/index.php?s=hd&sku=1000112108

 

[nobbie48]

At work they said on a ladder you needed to maintain 3 points of contact. I said fine but that rules out carrying anything in one hand. They're response "oh sure you can". Of course it's physically impossible.

At Esso I think they let you climb a ladder with a screwdriver in your pocket and use it to turn an adjustment knob. Otherwise ladders are only used to access a work platform. Tools are lifted up by rope and bucket.

 

[nobbie48]

 

[Mad Mike]

Lumber futures have fallen fast and are still falling. They are around falling and are around the same prices they were from 2018 to mid 2020 - $>375 per 1000 board feet. The retail price for a 2x4 is still very high at $5 considering the historical average price was $2.95 when lumber costs were at this level.

I'd expect a 2x4 to drop a little more as lower-priced inventory works its way through the system. Hard to say if we'll see <$3 again as wood is only part of the cost of production and distribution. From what I've read, the lumber industry invested lots of their recent windfall profits into cost-savings (upgrades, consolidation, and lower labor/energy cost locations . Still, other things like transportation and distribution cost increases could eat up those savings.

 

[mimico_polak]

At Esso I think they let you climb a ladder with a screwdriver in your pocket and use it to turn an adjustment knob. Otherwise ladders are only used to access a work platform. Tools are lifted up by rope and bucket.

Any job I've been on, there is ZERO work allowed from a ladder. They are to be used to access a work area, not to work off it.

Unfortunately that's not reality majority of the time, as people won't go get an Elevated Work Platform to screw in a few small things...but we do our best to keep the crews in line.

 

[mimico_polak]

Lumber futures have fallen fast and are still falling. They are around falling and are around the same prices they were from 2018 to mid 2020 - $>375 per 1000 board feet. The retail price for a 2x4 is still very high at $5 considering the historical average price was $2.95 when lumber costs were at this level.

I'd expect a 2x4 to drop a little more as lower-priced inventory works its way through the system. Hard to say if we'll see <$3 again as wood is only part of the cost of production and distribution. From what I've read, the lumber industry invested lots of their recent windfall profits into cost-savings (upgrades, consolidation, and lower labor/energy cost locations . Still, other things like transportation and distribution cost increases could eat up those savings.

I don't think it'll ever go back down to pre-COVID pricing as the suppliers / retailers are used now to a certain type of profit margin as a bare minimum. And if people keep buying at $5/each...then why drop it.

However...as things slow down, I expect retailers see that they're sitting on inventory and it only takes one (unfortunately we don't have much in terms of competition) to drop the price a bit, and the rest will follow.

 

[sburns]

I paid $3.45 for 2x4's back in Apr 2020. Can't believe the pricing is still where it's at.
But I think @mimico_polak is correct, suppliers have gotten use to the new revenue why undo it. But things are crazy overpriced, like a pound of butter at $10... it's butter. FFS.

Order from HD

 

[nobbie48]

I paid $3.45 for 2x4's back in Apr 2020. Can't believe the pricing is still where it's at.
But I think @mimico_polak is correct, suppliers have gotten use to the new revenue why undo it. But things are crazy overpriced, like a pound of butter at $10... it's butter. FFS.

Order from HD
View attachment 58816

With any retail product the selling price is largely dictated by by the stores replacement cost. Why sell a 2X4 for $4 when it will cost $5 to put a new one back on the shelf. When wholesale prices drop the opposite happens. Why sell a 2X4 that cost $5 for $4.

Getting used to the lower profits is one thing for a privately held company. The owner decides how to treat the bank, his customers and his family, normally looking at things long term. In a publicly traded corporation the shareholders have the clout. Their well-being is more important than the end user. "Worry about tomorrow tomorrow."

Lower profits means lower share values and levered shares may require a bail out by the holder. The dominoes start toppling.

I am wondering about the labour costs and how Joe worker sees the situation. If he's been riding high for a few years and his ego has him convinced he's worth 50% more than pre Covid, can he adjust his expectations downwards?

It will be harder if revising his worth has to take into account the new house, pickup, bass boat, renovations, sleds etc. All of which are financed and dropping in value. The house being the one with hope if he can keep his head above water.

I haven't been following the chip supply issue and whether the hoards of chipless vehicles are about to be released, flooding the market and dropping used car prices. Toys will become a buyer's market.

Having a job done by someone who has a bad attitude (I should be making a ton more) makes me nervous. What shortcuts are being taken?

As one pressured supplier told me "If someone's going to lose their house it isn't going to be me."

 

[nobbie48]

Any job I've been on, there is ZERO work allowed from a ladder. They are to be used to access a work area, not to work off it.

Unfortunately that's not reality majority of the time, as people won't go get an Elevated Work Platform to screw in a few small things...but we do our best to keep the crews in line.

Turning a screwdriver still allows three point contact. If you have to remove a cover the situation changes. Dropping things is a no-no.

Your safety glasses fog up. Do you walk around in a fog or remove and clean them?

 

[mimico_polak]

Agreed with one important point from @nobbie48 ... as prices of goods start to inevitably stabilize...will Joe Worker accept the fact that his painting skills aren't worth $5000 when someone will do it for $3000?

A lot of trades will start seeing downward pressure on their work as people start to pinch pennies and look at work asking themselves...'do I REALLY need that 20-30k bathroom upgrade?'

My dad quoted a lady $12k for the labour on a bathroom in her house, she buys material. She balked and told him it's way too expensive.

She went to other guys and asked the same....30k for JUST THE LABOUR on a small 8x10 bathroom.

That's not sustainable.

 

[GreyGhost]

Agreed with one important point from @nobbie48 ... as prices of goods start to inevitably stabilize...will Joe Worker accept the fact that his painting skills aren't worth $5000 when someone will do it for $3000?

A lot of trades will start seeing downward pressure on their work as people start to pinch pennies and look at work asking themselves...'do I REALLY need that 20-30k bathroom upgrade?'

My dad quoted a lady $12k for the labour on a bathroom in her house, she buys material. She balked and told him it's way too expensive.

She went to other guys and asked the same....30k for JUST THE LABOUR on a small 8x10 bathroom.

That's not sustainable.

Yes and no. Lots of people bought houses 10+ years ago that are now "worth" seven figures more on paper. A bathroom that was acceptable in a 300K house can make it hard to sell a 1.5M house. If mortgage is finished, plowing that money back into modernization can maximize your return. Obviously smart decisions need to be made and this may not apply to every room nor every property but in many cases, 50K-100k to update a hideous bathroom may actually pay off as so many buyers have no vision nor will to renovate a purchased property.

 

[mimico_polak]

Yes and no. Lots of people bought houses 10+ years ago that are now "worth" seven figures more on paper. A bathroom that was acceptable in a 300K house can make it hard to sell a 1.5M house. If mortgage is finished, plowing that money back into modernization can maximize your return. Obviously smart decisions need to be made and this may not apply to every room nor every property but in many cases, 50K-100k to update a hideous bathroom may actually pay off as so many buyers have no vision nor will to renovate a purchased property.

While I agree with a 50-100k upgrade may pay off in the long run...I think it's a hard sell for the majority of normal people to spend that much money on a bathroom...especially in the current climate of increasing rates.

Paid off house or not...that type of spend is a hard pill to swallow for the majority of people.

 

[GreyGhost]

While I agree with a 50-100k upgrade may pay off in the long run...I think it's a hard sell for the majority of normal people to spend that much money on a bathroom...especially in the current climate of increasing rates.

Paid off house or not...that type of spend is a hard pill to swallow for the majority of people.

If the mortgage is clear, that's only a few years continuing to spend at the same rate as you are used to. Interest matters less over short-term (or if you really want to avoid interest, keep paying mortgage payments into a renovation account and do the construction once fund has enough money built up).

 

[mimico_polak]

If the mortgage is clear, that's only a few years continuing to spend at the same rate as you are used to. Interest matters less over short-term (or if you really want to avoid interest, keep paying mortgage payments into a renovation account and do the construction once fund has enough money built up).

All valid points. But IMO with recent low rates, stupid spending on toys/upgrades/etc...unlikely that majority of people are in a position to drop that much on a reno easily.

As for me...I've got a list that is getting longer each day for jobs to complete.

So what does GTAM think...should I just rip apart the bedroom while the wife is at work and go to town on the reno? Or pack my bags and move out now? LoL

This may save my marriage....

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I've also found one storage / closet wall completely drenched in moisture. There's zero insulation behind, but it's the access into the lower part of my roof. There's an opening there.

So stupid cold in the attic...but warm in the closet. Not surprising there's a lot of moisture there.

 

[GreyGhost]

All valid points. But IMO with recent low rates, stupid spending on toys/upgrades/etc...unlikely that majority of people are in a position to drop that much on a reno easily.

As for me...I've got a list that is getting longer each day for jobs to complete.

So what does GTAM think...should I just rip apart the bedroom while the wife is at work and go to town on the reno? Or pack my bags and move out now? LoL

This may save my marriage....

Professional Zipper Door, Dust Protection Wall, Barrier for Dust Containment - Heavy-Duty Construction Access Door - Plastic Sheeting Temporary Door, Zipper Barrier Room Seal - Reusable Doorway : Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement

Professional Zipper Door, Dust Protection Wall, Barrier for Dust Containment - Heavy-Duty Construction Access Door - Plastic Sheeting Temporary Door, Zipper Barrier Room Seal - Reusable Doorway : Amazon.ca: Tools & Home Improvement

www.amazon.ca

I've also found one storage / closet wall completely drenched in moisture. There's zero insulation behind, but it's the access into the lower part of my roof. There's an opening there.

So stupid cold in the attic...but warm in the closet. Not surprising there's a lot of moisture there.

If it was me, I would try to coordinate a time for the master bedroom (eg wife and kids go to hang out at the cottage and come back to master finished). Move kids into one room. That frees up other kid room for renovation. Renovate one kid room, move kids to finished room and then do other kid room. You spend half your life relocating people/furniture but it can work. I ripped out carpet and put hardwood in our old house that way. Really sucked but couldn't come up with a better system as furniture had to be out of each room as it was done.

 

[nobbie48]

Yes and no. Lots of people bought houses 10+ years ago that are now "worth" seven figures more on paper. A bathroom that was acceptable in a 300K house can make it hard to sell a 1.5M house. If mortgage is finished, plowing that money back into modernization can maximize your return. Obviously smart decisions need to be made and this may not apply to every room nor every property but in many cases, 50K-100k to update a hideous bathroom may actually pay off as so many buyers have no vision nor will to renovate a purchased property.

It can also backfire.

I had to repair a bathroom floor warming system in an older Leaside house, owned by an senior couple. Walking in, the place was a 1940's time capsule, including the carpets, drapes and furniture.

When I entered the only bathroom I had to shake my head. Marble and bling everywhere. Whirlpool tub. Where's the Queen of Sheba?

The partial makeover highlighted the dreary look of the rest of the house. There were some negative vibes from the husband. I suspect he got swept into the reno by the wife. I can't picture him taking a bubble bath. Painting one fender of an old car is worse IMO than ignoring a small dent.

Another client in Rosedale admitted he timed into the place and could never afford it at the then market price. It needed a new kitchen but an Ikea one would reduce it's value as Ikea would suggest everything in the place had been cheaped out.

Our kitchen and baths need aesthetic updates but work fine for us with minor repairs and updates. Our tastes are not trendy so wouldn't suit most present buyers. Spending $100 K would likely be a waste, seeing it out on the curb a week after we sold.

Similarly, I would be leery of tarted up flippers, expecting to rip out most of the superficial stuff and finding Kevin's handiwork underneath.

 

[mimico_polak]

If it was me, I would try to coordinate a time for the master bedroom (eg wife and kids go to hang out at the cottage and come back to master finished). Move kids into one room. That frees up other kid room for renovation. Renovate one kid room, move kids to finished room and then do other kid room. You spend half your life relocating people/furniture but it can work. I ripped out carpet and put hardwood in our old house that way. Really sucked but couldn't come up with a better system as furniture had to be out of each room as it was done.

Then that means summer time. Otherwise there's no other time.

Wife and I can always sleep in the basement. And the kids we can move into our room with their small beds one by one.