Enough of COVID...what are you doing to the house?

[nobbie48]

Asking for a friend. The hot water tank has drain for the pressure relief pipe. If he bumps the tank over can he share the drain with a washing machine?

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If the drain is conventional leading to a sewer system dumping washer water would be OK if it didn't overload the system. My beef with them is that floor drains are rarely used the way gramma did, draining the wringer washer onto the floor every week and keeping the trap full.

If the trap runs dry sewer gas can get into the basement. I ran a trap seal line from the sink taps that tops up the trap whenever the taps are used.

 

[crankcall]

You probably shouldn’t drain the washers down that hole , or a floor drain. The soaps are not going through a sewage plant , they are going into the ground water .
I won’t preach , my old house on the escarpment had a floor drain that ran out the basement and 20 ft later over the 200ft drop . Washer pumped out there for two decades , but I wouldn’t do it now .


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[Mad Mike]

You probably shouldn’t drain the washers down that hole , or a floor drain. The soaps are not going through a sewage plant , they are going into the ground water .
I won’t preach , my old house on the escarpment had a floor drain that ran out the basement and 20 ft later over the 200ft drop . Washer pumped out there for two decades , but I wouldn’t do it now .


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The city of Markham permits greywater recycling, all you need is a simple plumbing permit. I'm thinking about placing a couple of 1000l totes under my deck, with the exception of a sink in the basement, I can gravity feed all the grey water drains there easily.

I ran a downspout off my roof into our pool, this saved hundreds in water costs this summer. My pool needs 20m3 $250 of water to top it up at spring opening and another 2m3/week for evaporation and backwashing, about $500 a year ($9.30/m3 in Markham). Spring rains that hit the roof filled the pool this spring, every good rain.

I also have a catch basin in one corner of my yard, it's about 5' below grade and always wet. I have a small solar pump that keeps 2 rain barrels filled for watering gardens, I think Ill put in a 1000l tote and small sprinkler pump next year, that will let me disconnected from city water and recover the backwash outflow from the pool.

 

[GreyGhost]

The city of Markham permits greywater recycling, all you need is a simple plumbing permit. I'm thinking about placing a couple of 1000l totes under my deck, with the exception of a sink in the basement, I can gravity feed all the grey water drains there easily.

I ran a downspout off my roof into our pool, this saved hundreds in water costs this summer. My pool needs 20m3 $250 of water to top it up at spring opening and another 2m3/week for evaporation and backwashing, about $500 a year ($9.30/m3 in Markham). Spring rains that hit the roof filled the pool this spring, every good rain.

I also have a catch basin in one corner of my yard, it's about 5' below grade and always wet. I have a small solar pump that keeps 2 rain barrels filled for watering gardens, I think Ill put in a 1000l tote and small sprinkler pump next year, that will let me disconnected from city water and recover the backwash outflow from the pool.


View attachment 58454

Most summers I need to pump about two feet of water out of our pool. A hard rain has most of the water that hits the patio run into the pool so collection area to pool area is more than 2:1. I'll backwash to lower it but unless something goes wrong and we turn the pool green the filter can go all summer without more than 2 psi pressure rise.

I'm assuming saltwater pool? I'm not sure about the long-term effect on watering plants with chlorinated salt water.

 

[nobbie48]

You probably shouldn’t drain the washers down that hole , or a floor drain. The soaps are not going through a sewage plant , they are going into the ground water .
I won’t preach , my old house on the escarpment had a floor drain that ran out the basement and 20 ft later over the 200ft drop . Washer pumped out there for two decades , but I wouldn’t do it now .


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My testing showed the floor drain going to the sanitary sewer line. In some older parts of the city I wouldn't take any bets. Part of the reason the western beaches are high in e-coli is the number of untraceable oopsie plumbing connections up the Humber River.

 

[nobbie48]

The city of Markham permits greywater recycling, all you need is a simple plumbing permit. I'm thinking about placing a couple of 1000l totes under my deck, with the exception of a sink in the basement, I can gravity feed all the grey water drains there easily.

I ran a downspout off my roof into our pool, this saved hundreds in water costs this summer. My pool needs 20m3 $250 of water to top it up at spring opening and another 2m3/week for evaporation and backwashing, about $500 a year ($9.30/m3 in Markham). Spring rains that hit the roof filled the pool this spring, every good rain.

I also have a catch basin in one corner of my yard, it's about 5' below grade and always wet. I have a small solar pump that keeps 2 rain barrels filled for watering gardens, I think Ill put in a 1000l tote and small sprinkler pump next year, that will let me disconnected from city water and recover the backwash outflow from the pool.


View attachment 58454

I need to put in a catch basin but draining it isn't easy. Can the solar pump handle freeze thaw cycles or run dry without burning itself out?

 

[GreyGhost]

I need to put in a catch basin but draining it isn't easy. Can the solar pump handle freeze thaw cycles or run dry without burning itself out?

Easy enough to run power through a float switch between panel and pump. I would pull the pump in the winter. It will take a while before you freeze a catchbasin but once it's frozen, I would expect it to stay frozen for the winter.

EDIT:
If you really wanted it to work in the winter, you can probably make it happen. Really deep catch basin (~6'?) and install a foot of foam at the top of the pit. Water can trickle around the foam but you wouldn't have a ton of air movement and the deep pit allows ground heat to keep water in the pit.

 

[mimico_polak]

Want to finally install my pony panel in the basement laundry room.

I've got a 60A cable running from the main 200A panel to the laundry room, and I have my old 100A panel with all my breakers still around.

Should I just re-use that panel? Or buy a new smaller 60A panel instead? I want to get rid of the hanging cable in the laundry room and start cleaning this thing up.

I think I can have more than 60A in breakers at the panel as it's nothing more than standard lights/switches that are currently feeding off it. But I do want to setup a direct line for the furnace to be running off the smaller 60A panel.

 

[Mad Mike]

I need to put in a catch basin but draining it isn't easy. Can the solar pump handle freeze thaw cycles or run dry without burning itself out?

My catch basin was installed 60 years ago when the house was built, it's connected to the city storm sewer system. The pump is at the bottom of the catch basin pit, it's 5' down and stays unfrozen thru the winter. I disconnect the solar power so it doesn't pump thru the winter, and drain the barrels so they don't freeze.

 

[GreyGhost]

Want to finally install my pony panel in the basement laundry room.

I've got a 60A cable running from the main 200A panel to the laundry room, and I have my old 100A panel with all my breakers still around.

Should I just re-use that panel? Or buy a new smaller 60A panel instead? I want to get rid of the hanging cable in the laundry room and start cleaning this thing up.

I think I can have more than 60A in breakers at the panel as it's nothing more than standard lights/switches that are currently feeding off it. But I do want to setup a direct line for the furnace to be running off the smaller 60A panel.

If you add up breakers, every panel far exceeds the panel rating. There is a calculation you can do based on expected use of circuits to determine what is allowed.

EDIT:
If you plan to reuse your panel, make sure you break the bond between ground and neutral (probably remove and throw out a green screw).

My pool panel has a 60A breaker in the main panel and a 100A breaker at the sub-panel (obviously a 100A panel as well). It had permits. The sub-panel main breaker is basically a disconnect switch and it should never blow in this installation.

When installing the panel, it needs to have the same access requirement as the main panel. Install as high as possible but max height to top of top breaker is 67". 1m clear in front of panel. Cannot be over washer/sink or anything else. I think there is a left/right limit in code too (something like 1m wide). Basically it needs to be easily accessible.

 

[nobbie48]

Easy enough to run power through a float switch between panel and pump. I would pull the pump in the winter. It will take a while before you freeze a catchbasin but once it's frozen, I would expect it to stay frozen for the winter.

EDIT:
If you really wanted it to work in the winter, you can probably make it happen. Really deep catch basin (~6'?) and install a foot of foam at the top of the pit. Water can trickle around the foam but you wouldn't have a ton of air movement and the deep pit allows ground heat to keep water in the pit.

The catch basin is a 5 gallon pail and the biggest problem is the potential of a skeeter breeder in summer. Stinks a bit too.

I'm kicking around the thought of a pump with a rubber diaphragm that would handle freeze thaw cycles. I have access to submersible heating cables for the winter.

Your basic idea is good but not Rube Goldberg enough for me. I'd go for the pump and float switch but also have the float switch control a winch that lifts the pump out of the basin when not needed. Add a thermostat and heater to complicate matters.

 

[Mad Mike]

Want to finally install my pony panel in the basement laundry room.

I've got a 60A cable running from the main 200A panel to the laundry room, and I have my old 100A panel with all my breakers still around.

Should I just re-use that panel? Or buy a new smaller 60A panel instead? I want to get rid of the hanging cable in the laundry room and start cleaning this thing up.

I think I can have more than 60A in breakers at the panel as it's nothing more than standard lights/switches that are currently feeding off it. But I do want to setup a direct line for the furnace to be running off the smaller 60A panel.

The panel is rated for the max amperage it can distribute. If you want 60A at the pony panel, you need at least 6AWG and a 60A main breaker in that 100A panel.

It is also legal in ON to use 6AWG aluminum between panels, but remember that drops your max amperage @ 2000V to 55A, so you'll need to use a 50A breaker in the subpanel.

 

[mimico_polak]

Thanks @GreyGhost and @Mad Mike for the prompt response. The cable is 6 AWG CU.

We installed it during the time I was updating the garage from Kevin's laziness. I figure if I already have a 100A panel just sitting here. It's not a big stretch to just pop in a 60A main breaker, and just need to figure out how to cover the breakers that have been removed as parts were punched out.

 

[Mad Mike]

The catch basin is a 5 gallon pail and the biggest problem is the potential of a skeeter breeder in summer. Stinks a bit too.

I'm kicking around the thought of a pump with a rubber diaphragm that would handle freeze thaw cycles. I have access to submersible heating cables for the winter.

Your basic idea is good but not Rube Goldberg enough for me. I'd go for the pump and float switch but also have the float switch control a winch that lifts the pump out of the basin when not needed. Add a thermostat and heater to complicate matters.

What are you trying to achieve? 5Gal is pretty small, catch basins are usually drained into a storm sewer or an engineered soakaway pit/bed. The basin has a drop down reservoir to catch debris, that stays wet, it's usually about 3' deep. That's where I drop my pump.

 

[backmarkerducati]

Want to finally install my pony panel in the basement laundry room.

I've got a 60A cable running from the main 200A panel to the laundry room, and I have my old 100A panel with all my breakers still around.

Should I just re-use that panel? Or buy a new smaller 60A panel instead? I want to get rid of the hanging cable in the laundry room and start cleaning this thing up.

I think I can have more than 60A in breakers at the panel as it's nothing more than standard lights/switches that are currently feeding off it. But I do want to setup a direct line for the furnace to be running off the smaller 60A panel.

By code as long as the breaker in the main panel is 60A you should be OK. Of course the wiring MUST be 60A or greater--but see my last paragraph. Odds are you may not find a 60A main breaker for the 100A panel anyways. The 60A in the main panel protects the circuit, breaker in the sub panel is moot in this case.

There are loading calculations that determine the overall panel size and pretty much all panels have more amps in breakers than the main breaker, there are online calculators or it can be done manually. The idea is they are not all running flat out. Breakers will also be sized at 80% load aka slash (15 amp breaker is 12 amps continuous load) unless they are specifically rated as full load breakers--not many understand this is why code says 12 devices on a 15 amp circuit--average 1 amp per device.

BUT, if you are pulling an ESA notification/permit I would go with a new 60A sub panel, not very expensive, not some old used panel and less questions from the inspector. I would also go with the same brand and product line as your main panel so breakers can be interchanged or spared--not that they fail all the time just convenient. Also note the sub panel will typically require the neutral and ground to NOT be bonded together, but double check this--just a common gotcha.

 

[Mad Mike]

Thanks @GreyGhost and @Mad Mike for the prompt response. The cable is 6 AWG CU.

We installed it during the time I was updating the garage from Kevin's laziness. I figure if I already have a 100A panel just sitting here. It's not a big stretch to just pop in a 60A main breaker, and just need to figure out how to cover the breakers that have been removed as parts were punched out.

You're looking for "filler plates". You can get them off Amazon, at HD or any electrical supply. They run $1 to $10 each depending on the panel manufacturer.

https://www.amazon.ca/Siemens-US2-ECQF3P-Centers-Combinations/dp/B00466V8UK/ref=sr_1_3?gclid=Cj0KCQiAsdKbBhDHARIsANJ6-jcyQPybVQysh-ZbTSZ55ALZMrhLyo4zhaNjU9o79bWyS7U4N8kZavkaAv_BEALw_wcB&hvadid=600216301638&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9047869&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=11909565666589499279&hvtargid=kwd-483127623574&hydadcr=16812_13464111&keywords=panel+filler+plates&qid=1668612331&qu=eyJxc2MiOiIyLjAzIiwicXNhIjoiMC4wMCIsInFzcCI6IjAuMDAifQ%3D%3D&sr=8-3

 

[mimico_polak]

By code as long as the breaker in the main panel is 60A you should be OK. Of course the wiring MUST be 60A or greater--but see my last paragraph. Odds are you may not find a 60A main breaker for the 100A panel anyways. The 60A in the main panel protects the circuit, breaker in the sub panel is moot in this case.

There are loading calculations that determine the overall panel size and pretty much all panels have more amps in breakers than the main breaker, there are online calculators or it can be done manually. The idea is they are not all running flat out. Breakers will also be sized at 80% load aka slash (15 amp breaker is 12 amps continuous load) unless they are specifically rated as full load breakers--not many understand this is why code says 12 devices on a 15 amp circuit--average 1 amp per device.

BUT, if you are pulling an ESA notification/permit I would go with a new 60A sub panel, not very expensive, not some old used panel and less questions from the inspector. I would also go with the same brand and product line as your main panel so breakers can be interchanged or spared--not that they fail all the time just convenient. Also note the sub panel will typically require the neutral and ground to NOT be bonded together, but double check this--just a common gotcha.

Thanks. I didn't consider the ground/neutral question. Thought that would be taken care of with the main grounding that is going to the water line.

Regardless...it's quite convenient that the ground can be run directly to the same water line as it's a straight shot b/w the joists in the ceiling (thankfully going parallel) right to the water line.

 

[GreyGhost]

Thanks @GreyGhost and @Mad Mike for the prompt response. The cable is 6 AWG CU.

We installed it during the time I was updating the garage from Kevin's laziness. I figure if I already have a 100A panel just sitting here. It's not a big stretch to just pop in a 60A main breaker, and just need to figure out how to cover the breakers that have been removed as parts were punched out.

I edited my post with more info. I don't think you need to replace that main breaker as the panel is protected by the existing 60A. Two 60A breakers in series seems like a waste of money.

You can buy blanks for breaker panels. You can also leave in empty breakers and mark them empty as I'm assuming the panel was full before (or maybe you moved those breakers to the new panel).

 

[backmarkerducati]

Thanks. I didn't consider the ground/neutral question. Thought that would be taken care of with the main grounding that is going to the water line.

Regardless...it's quite convenient that the ground can be run directly to the same water line as it's a straight shot b/w the joists in the ceiling (thankfully going parallel) right to the water line.

IME the sub panel will get ground from the main panel. The difference:

In the main panel the neutral bus and the ground will in interconnected (tied together) typically by a green screw on the neutral bus that ties the neutral bus to the panel itself. Ground comes from ground rods or copper water feed BEFORE the water meter and any valves.

In a sub panels in the same building, ground and neutral typically both come from the main panel (separate wires) and each goes to their own bus, green screw is removed from the neutral bus in the sub panel.

BUT, verify yourself via code not some random dude on the interwebs... just a gotcha that most don't consider.

 

[mimico_polak]

IME the sub panel will get ground from the main panel. The difference:

In the main panel the neutral bus and the ground will in interconnected (tied together) typically by a green screw on the neutral bus that ties the neutral bus to the panel itself. Ground comes from ground rods or copper water feed BEFORE the water meter and any valves.

In a sub panels in the same building, ground and neutral typically both come from the main panel (separate wires) and each goes to their own bus, green screw is removed from the neutral bus in the sub panel.

BUT, verify yourself via code not some random dude on the interwebs... just a gotcha that most don't consider.

Thanks. From the sounds of it you're more than just some rando! LoL