Good point. I don’t recall having any of this foam type insulation when we opened a portion of the wall for the new electrical panel installation.
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Enough of COVID...what are you doing to the house?
- Thread starter mimico_polak
- Start date
I'll go dig up the paperwork tomorrow to see what's stated in there. Next step will be to get it properly tested.
If I can remove it solo and only get an engineer to confirm it's gone, it's a load off. Hell I could just leave it there (if it is what is assumed) and just insulate from the exterior.
My knee jerk reaction to not being able to do it yourself is that you can do anything you want to your house at your health risk, some specific exceptions. Run gas pipes and wires anywhere you want, just don't expect them to be connected to a source or be insured.
However the disposal of the foam could be an issue. There were horror stories of people being left with devices containing PCB's and having to store them like nuclear waste or pay a fortune to get rid of them.
The government will pass a law banning a product but leave the end user up a creek when they have to dispose of it. A reasonably run central containment would be a good idea but the government says "Tough luck, your problem." If a person suspects they have a PCB item they go for a midnight drive and dump it in a ditch or farmer's field access.
A number of years ago the OPP stopped pickup on the 400 IIRC for an unsecured load, dust blowing around. It turned out to be asbestos. That got a special ticket.
Atomic Energy paid a contractor to dispose of some hazmat. A couple of days later the OPP showed up at their door asking why all the AE junk was laying in a ditch in Caledon.
An underlying concern is that as a problem escalates the legal costs escalate exponentially. John and Joe have a problem. If they can resolve it over a beer the monies spent go into fixing the problem. "If you do this, I'll do that, want another beer?"
If one party says "Let me check with my lawyer" costs ramp up. If the lawyer needs to consult an engineer and the engineer needs to consult the device manufacturer who in turn needs to consult his lawyer....the other side is forced to match the fight. $$$$$$$$$$ and years before anything gets done.
Check your own sources but IIRC you have two years from when the problem was found to initiate action. Someone please confirm as things change.
Right now a lot of this is speculation so some facts are needed.
1) Is it UFFI? If not move on. If yes contact the appropriate parties with the planned route to resolution if there isn't cooperation. Concealment will just make it worse.
I was fault locating a new snow melting system and was at the point of flipping a coin as to whether the problem was in the N-W corner or S-E. A bunch of concrete workers were watching me so I told them I would find the fault and the longer it took the more it would cost. "Not blaming anyone but if you were to guess which corner it was in where would you dig?" They all pointed to the S-E. Yup, there it was.
How does one find out if the foam is UFFI without setting off alarms? It's hard to un-ring a bell and there are too many vultures sitting on the fence waiting for it to ring.
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I'd dig out a bit and start here.
Would an infrared scan show the bore holes if they exist. I can get my camera up and running in a few days, needs a major recharge. Theoretically the holes would show hotter as there would be more insulation.
Taking any bets as to what will end up costing more, the KiTek replacement or the combined legal costs?
Any guess on the piping costs?
With my house the water supply is pretty centralized. To replace all the supply would mean R&R of three sheets of drywall and a couple of days of plumber time + material. Chump change to a lawyer.
How many hours of lawyer time does that buy?
I doubt there are any records of what is there insulation wise. Any legal case would result in the house being "branded". IMO leave it be or remove it yourself....
Any testing, make sure it is not tied to the address etc.
Any testing, make sure it is not tied to the address etc.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I would take a simpler approach, if it looks like a fish, smells like a fish... it's probably a ????
A mid century home with crumbly foam insulation doesn't leave many head scratching questions as to what it is. While I wouldn't personally get scared, i would be pissd that a seller did not disclose uffi, particularly one who was an avid DIY type.
Any environmental restoration company will tell you by looking at a sample. Take in your sample, tell them you're looking at buying an old cottage, the foam scared you. Unlikely the charge you a dime.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Most uffi installers peeled back sidings and/Or soffit to inject from outside.
Mad Mike
Well-known member
Real estate litigation ran me $600/hr (35k total) on a title fraud case.
An acquaintance is a partner in a big bay st firm - $1200/hr. For that rate you get cash winnings + they usually throw in a little vengeance to make you feel satisfied.
As for replacing ktek, there don't need to remove existing, the just chop the ends off the old and leave the rest in the walls. Routing new pex is way simpler than ktek or copper.
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Many from the inside too.
McMaster was 1 of the first to experiment with uffi.
Walter Tucker allowed the university to spray it on everything, at his Puslinch "resort".
It was on the exterior walls of his house, and every building on the property.
The "resort" owned a VW van. It too was uffi'd - the complete exterior, windows excepted.
The aged here might remember that van rolling the Hamilton area.....early/mid 70's.
We just got through a nasty will challenge. I know the prices. If the process is a slam dunk then go for it if it's going to be your point.
Unfortunately some see it like a losing day at the casino, they more they get behind the more they just want to break even.
Often early in the game one side smells blood and why should they concede anything if they're going to win?
Actually they tie the pex to the Kitek , pull it through and out comes the Ktec , in goes the new pipe. Long runs through joists go fairly smooth as the exterior diameter of Pex is just slightly less than Ktec.
Good part is at least its not toxic and could be left in places where removal is impossible .
Mad Mike
Well-known member
I'd be surprised to see it pulled straight thru -- plastic pipe is typically anchored, tee-d, and clamps would be real obstacles for a smooth pull out. But hey - I've never done it so mine's an armchair plumber's point of view.
Do photo document it for us -- be interesting to see how much wall needs to be opened up.
It’s two yrs since mine was done , they cut nearly 30 opening to drywall , working over 3 floors , 4 baths and 2600sq ft . The KiTec was only stapled on stud walls where it projects for faucets or joists where it comes up for toilet risers
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Need to install a 24" grab bar in a shower/tub. 12x24" ceramic (I'm guessing) horizontal tile. What's the best way to find the studs?. Drill small holes in the horizontal grout until I hit a stud then measure 16" and try another hole?. If no luck try 24"? If 16s then diagonal to each stud but horizontal if 24s? Is it best to install the screw in the grout line or drill through a tile? btw, outside wall so cant go through the other side to find studs.
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stud finder should work through tile. May get some false hits due but you should be able to find a pattern.
Install the grab bar in the orientation required to make it useful. If that requires purchasing a different length grab bar then do that.
You will require more than one screw in each end of the bar. At least a few screws are going to have to go through the tile.
Guess I need a better stud finder, I am getting nothing all the way across the wall. Would that because of the cement board?
I'm thinking I wouldnt be able to hit the stud (if I find it) with all three screws at each end. If I can hit with two at each end what do I use in the tile for the one (or two) that doesnt/dont hit a stud?
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