Enbridge is unbelievable!

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Diesel said:
And so are his gas fees... my complaint is with the customer fee. If they charged a rated customer fee I wouldn't bother complaining.
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They can't charge a different customer rate. That 20 a month is the fee to be an Enbridge customer. Why should you have a cheaper rate if he is using more gas. shouldn't he have a cheaper customer charge because he is buying more volume? It makes him a more valuable customer. Natural gas is a cheap source of energy. I am willing to allow anyone drive with me for a few days, and you'll be surprised how much they pay to have this infrastructure work done. Example.
I did a job yesterday, the customer built an addition to his rest. the problem was, our regulator was now inside, which is against code,since the main pressure is 45 psi. We had to cut back the service outside and re install the meters. Enbridge had to have a hydra vac truck sucker a hole to the service so they can squeeze it off, usually a couple hrs work, so the customer was quoted 1500, but the ground was so hard, it actually took two days to open the hole, and over 6000 gallons of water, the cost to Enbridge was close to 5000. It's considered a part of doing business.

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Here's another point of infrastructure cost. I have about 200 jobs in my truck to do for Enbridge, but those 200 will turn in to 300 by time I am done, due to other issues that weren't expected. So they were expecting to pay for 200 jobs, but will be paying for 300 jobs. It costs a lot money to keep a system that size running smooth. Now the only difference is I am doing commercial work, not residential.

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Diesel said:
Big friggin deal when the customer charge is 6x the gas price and the delivery is 2x the gas price. They might as well give the gas for free.
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Do you work for free? What you are not understanding is, they are paying delivery charges to have it delivered here. They should be charging you more, why shouldn't they make money on the sale of gas, everyone else makes money on their sales, seems Enbridge is being the good company by selling you gas at no increase.

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oilycreek said:
They can't charge a different customer rate. That 20 a month is the fee to be an Enbridge customer. Why should you have a cheaper rate if he is using more gas. shouldn't he have a cheaper customer charge because he is buying more volume? It makes him a more valuable customer. Natural gas is a cheap source of energy. I am willing to allow anyone drive with me for a few days, and you'll be surprised how much they pay to have this infrastructure work done. Example.
I did a job yesterday, the customer built an addition to his rest. the problem was, our regulator was now inside, which is against code,since the main pressure is 45 psi. We had to cut back the service outside and re install the meters. Enbridge had to have a hydra vac truck sucker a hole to the service so they can squeeze it off, usually a couple hrs work, so the customer was quoted 1500, but the ground was so hard, it actually took two days to open the hole, and over 6000 gallons of water, the cost to Enbridge was close to 5000. It's considered a part of doing business.
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Why should I pay less? Because I use less.

If they charged something like $0.50 per m^3 and no other fees, then those that consumed more would pay more. Those that are frugal save money, the way it should be. Why the hell should I try to curb my usage only to subsidize those that use more?

There are other ways of pricing things to be more fair and still pay for costs....

Just like toll roads that charge per km and gasoline taxes that basically charge more for the more that you consume are fair taxes. Flat rate taxes are not because not everyone consumes like everyone else.
 
oilycreek said:
Do you work for free? What you are not understanding is, they are paying delivery charges to have it delivered here. They should be charging you more, why shouldn't they make money on the sale of gas, everyone else makes money on their sales, seems Enbridge is being the good company by selling you gas at no increase.

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I get paid for the amount of time I put in. I should pay for the amount of fuel I use.
 
Diesel said:
I get paid for the amount of time I put in. I should pay for the amount of fuel I use.
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You do pay for the fuel you use, you. Also pay to have it delivered to you. The 20 is to have the meter at your house, and the service to your house, and maintained. Due to deregulation people buy there gas from marketers, but Enbridge still pays all the maintenance fees. If the marketers had to foot the bill, they would charge more. No one is forcing you to be a customer, at any time you are free to convert to any other energy source. The fact you buy less gas makes you a less valued customer. If I were going to give anyone a discount, it would be the person buying more product off me.

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Diesel said:
Why should I pay less? Because I use less.

If they charged something like $0.50 per m^3 and no other fees, then those that consumed more would pay more. Those that are frugal save money, the way it should be. Why the hell should I try to curb my usage only to subsidize those that use more?

There are other ways of pricing things to be more fair and still pay for costs....

Just like toll roads that charge per km and gasoline taxes that basically charge more for the more that you consume are fair taxes. Flat rate taxes are not because not everyone consumes like everyone else.
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How are you subsidizing anyone? You are paying a customer charge just like everyone else, and it's not a tax, you are not comparing the same things.

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I like staring at my Electric Bill and seeing "Debt Retirement Charge".

Upon further research, they say this is the payment you have to make because they were once bankrupt and "you" have to pay that charge.
My question is how am I responsible for their bankruptcy?
This can only happen in the public sector
 
Diesel said:
Why should I pay less? Because I use less.

If they charged something like $0.50 per m^3 and no other fees, then those that consumed more would pay more. Those that are frugal save money, the way it should be. Why the hell should I try to curb my usage only to subsidize those that use more?

There are other ways of pricing things to be more fair and still pay for costs....

Just like toll roads that charge per km and gasoline taxes that basically charge more for the more that you consume are fair taxes. Flat rate taxes are not because not everyone consumes like everyone else.
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Think of it like a cell phone that includes 100 minutes a month and costs you $20 for your plan. Even if you dont make a single call, you still pay $20/month. If you use 99 minutes, you still pay $20/month. It costs money to build and operate all those cell towers and have staff and keep the lights on. It costs money just to keep the cell network available in case you decide to make a call. The same with natural gas.

There are fixed costs (overhead) to have you as a customer even if you use no gas, just to have it available when you want it. The meter has to be maintained whether you use it or not. Someone still has to take a reading whether you use it or not.

Conversely, why should the moderate users have to subsidize the fixed costs of having you as a customer just so gas is available when you want to use it. While your conservation is admirable, it's a two-way street. One could even argue that the costs of maintaning all that infrastructure for someone that barely uses it is even more wasteful than someone with moderate usage, as it's wasted effort.

It sounds like you need to move some appliances to gas (hot water heater, furnace, stove, clothes dryer, bbq, etc) so you never get stuck with a minimum charge and you'll save a lot of money in the long run compared to having electric appliances.
 
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RockerGuy said:
I like staring at my Electric Bill and seeing "Debt Retirement Charge".

Upon further research, they say this is the payment you have to make because they were once bankrupt and "you" have to pay that charge.
My question is how am I responsible for their bankruptcy?
This can only happen in the public sector
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Since the former Ontario Hydro was a crown corporation (owned by the taxpayers), its debt is our (shared) debt. While no one likes the charge (and I'm no exception), the reality is we are on the hook for it. In a roundabout way, it's just making up the difference between what consumers were being charged for hydro from years ago and the actual cost of producing it.

If you want to be mad at someone, direct your anger at the successive governments (of all political stripes) who allowed it to happen back then, and less so of the ones that are trying to correct it now.
 
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Ah, yes, this is the same issue i realized when i bought my house last year. No point in being frugal. My actual usage is only a part of the bill, half of my bill i have no control over, no matter how much or little i use.
 
the $20 fixed charge would be somewhat insignificant during the cold winters. Just look at my year to date gas charges for 4 months it's almost $500 with $80 of it going to the fixed charge. Ok maybe ~20% is not so insignificant lol. I even tried not taking a bath for a month just to see how much I could save. pointless.

My future goal when I can afford it is to put solar panels up and convert everything to electrical.
 
oilycreek said:
and in case you can't read, I will type this slower just for you. Enbridge does not make any money from the sale is gas, they sell it to us for exactly what they pay for it.
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in the case you can't read and comprehend. i will still type just as fast. this thread is about the $20 fixed fee. i was implying enbridge CAN charge it and there ain't nothing OP can do about it.
 
SkyRider said:
in the case you can't read and comprehend. i will still type just as fast. this thread is about the $20 fixed fee. i was implying enbridge CAN charge it and there ain't nothing OP can do about it.
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BS you were talking about usage not a customer charge. If you were talking about the fixed charge, you wouldn't of used 5 sec and pay for a min, you would of said used 5 sec and payed the full account fee.


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giesen said:
Think of it like a cell phone that includes 100 minutes a month and costs you $20 for your plan. Even if you dont make a single call, you still pay $20/month. If you use 99 minutes, you still pay $20/month. It costs money to build and operate all those cell towers and have staff and keep the lights on. It costs money just to keep the cell network available in case you decide to make a call. The same with natural gas.

There are fixed costs (overhead) to have you as a customer even if you use no gas, just to have it available when you want it. The meter has to be maintained whether you use it or not. Someone still has to take a reading whether you use it or not.

Conversely, why should the moderate users have to subsidize the fixed costs of having you as a customer just so gas is available when you want to use it. While your conservation is admirable, it's a two-way street. One could even argue that the costs of maintaning all that infrastructure for someone that barely uses it is even more wasteful than someone with moderate usage, as it's wasted effort.

It sounds like you need to move some appliances to gas (hot water heater, furnace, stove, clothes dryer, bbq, etc) so you never get stuck with a minimum charge and you'll save a lot of money in the long run compared to having electric appliances.
Click to expand...

Hey hey hey, stop using logic in this thread! We're supposed to be bitching about Enbridge and not considering the costs of running the infrastructure, offering practical solutions and explaining flat rates to people who refuse to understand because they don't wanna pay :shock:
 
FiReSTaRT said:
Hey hey hey, stop using logic in this thread! We're supposed to be bitching about Enbridge and not considering the costs of running the infrastructure, offering practical solutions and explaining flat rates to people who refuse to understand because they don't wanna pay :shock:
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Oh I see... so suggesting that there could be other ways to charge customers that is more representative of their use, and hence more fair -- such as no customer charge but higher delivery fees, since that is what they are doing, delivering gas -- is now somehow illogical and translates to not wanting to pay?

I don't mind paying for both the gas I use and the delivery of said gas. The bottom line is that I think there could be a better billing structure in place.
 
Whether you use 2 bucks of gas or $2000, the delivery system still has to be there in the same capacity. All the same infrastructure has to be built and maintained regardless of how much gas you use.

I don't care for Enbridge, but its not unreasonable for them to charge a flat minimum fee regardless of usage. $20 seems okay to me.
 
oilycreek said:
Here's another point of infrastructure cost. I have about 200 jobs in my truck to do for Enbridge, but those 200 will turn in to 300 by time I am done, due to other issues that weren't expected. So they were expecting to pay for 200 jobs, but will be paying for 300 jobs. It costs a lot money to keep a system that size running smooth. Now the only difference is I am doing commercial work, not residential.

Sent from my A500 using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...

If you have 200 jobs in your truck to do .. GET TO WORK OLD MAN!!!
 
RockerGuy said:
I like staring at my Electric Bill and seeing "Debt Retirement Charge".

Upon further research, they say this is the payment you have to make because they were once bankrupt and "you" have to pay that charge.
My question is how am I responsible for their bankruptcy?
This can only happen in the public sector
Click to expand...

Isn't that charge classic? I guess their CEO who gets paid millions slipped that charge in there. Nice work.
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